Reviving WHM

[Gist]

what if overhealing returned mp to the whm pool?

What if a percentage of total healing returned MP?

[ADVSS]

What if a percentage of total healing returned MP?

idk...more than 0?
edit: yes thats what i meant
apparently though that mp isnt an issue with healing, just dpsing as stated later,
so idk, if having comparable mana recovery/near endless pool isnt really something that will help put whm up, then i guess the only thing to look at is its damage output and ability to mitigate/block damage for windows to dps dps dps.
Only thing i can think of is take stoneskin off the CR skills, and add a bubble type ability that stacks with shields but further more would be even more potent with stoneskin/divine veil since itd be based on the targets max hp plus additional bonus if graniteskin came back. reduce the mp cost of dps spells, and i suppose you have a start...maybe. A lot of mentions to AST buffs, one which can literally be made to be a long lasting tank cooldown, to which, Im not sure what whm could get that would put them in a fair standing next to ast, maybe a determination up buff like inspire or something.

[IttyBitty]

WHM doesn't run out of mana by healing unless you are spamming Medica II or Cure III. Please stop suggesting yet more resource management tied to their healing toolkit; it just further exacerbates the problems we already have. We already have Freecure, Overcure and Enhanced Medica, which hamstrings us plenty whenever we even think about doing anything else.

Overhealing turning into a temporary HP buffer/shield is probably the best suggestion I've seen in regards to making a mechanic out of HP overflow, but it'd either be too weak or too strong (given how much HP a crit Cure II/III restores), and technically rewards poor play (Overhealing is supposed to be a waste). Not really a good mechanic.

I have a different idea for Asylum.

Make it auto cleanse removable debuffs from party members that enter. Now WHM is suddenly the only healer that can reliably cleanse debuffs without wasting a GCD (besides Selene).

Mitigation is far more needed in WHM's toolkit than an AoE cleanse, especially since most debuffs can't be removed in end-game content (which is where WHM is struggling the most). I can only really think of Limit Cut in A11S right now. If that's really wanted, I'd rather just add Esunaga as an oGCD.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

WHM doesn't run out of mana by healing unless you are spamming Medica II or Cure III. Please stop suggesting yet more resource management tied to their healing toolkit; it just further exacerbates the problems we already have. .

This.SOOOOOOOOOO much this.

The problem with WHM, aside from all our MP saving procs being RNG, is that we have no MP saving tools tied to our DPS kit.
If you're simply healing, you'll never run out of MP of course, but most WHMs that run into MP issues are dpsing. We need MP saving procs tied to DPS abilities, not healing at this point.

[SaitoHikari]

Mitigation is far more needed in WHM's toolkit than an AoE cleanse, especially since most debuffs can't be removed in end-game content (which is where WHM is struggling the most). I can only really think of Limit Cut in A11S right now. If that's really wanted, I'd rather just add Esunaga as an oGCD.

I agree, but I was looking for something that other healers don't already commonly have. The best mitigation tool WHMs could get without going way too much into SCH territory is giving WHMs Graniteskin again, and making Stoneskin II into an instant cast ability that can be used in combat with a 120-180 second cooldown.

As for the mana thing, I imagine most WHMs are looking for better MP management simply because the other two healers are FAR ahead in that department. If a WHM even thinks about attacking, their MP drains faster than the other two healers.

[Tint]

WHM has many crowd control skills. maybe they should enhance them. so instead of buffing the own party the WHM could specialize in debuffing the enemy. this could also lead to some mitigation skills, WHM already has virus and eye for an eye anyway.

edit:

however, i am now worried about the cross-skill change. will all healers have access to the same cross skills then? will virus and eye for an eye still be cross skills? will WHM lose virus and eye for an eye? or will AST get virus and eye for an eye? both cases favor AST over WHM...

[ADVSS]

WHM has many crowd control skills. maybe they should enhance them. so instead of buffing the own party the WHM could specialize in debuffing the enemy. this could also lead to some mitigation skills, WHM already has virus and eye for an eye anyway.

edit:

however, i am now worried about the cross-skill change. will all healers have access to the same cross skills then? will virus and eye for an eye still be cross skills? will WHM lose virus and eye for an eye? or will AST get virus and eye for an eye? both cases favor AST over WHM...

unless since pld probably losing stoneskin, it gets taken off of cross class, and given back granite skin and made whm only, ssince technically the other two do have access to shielding that even stacks with ss...if they do that.

[Deus_ex_Machina]

one thing i hope to see in SB is a magical mitigation to apply on a party member akin to apocatastasis (but isn't associate with it). Before HsW, whm had a proshell trait, so it's only fitting to give whm a magical mitigation. I still don't understand why they took away Granite Skin trait... is it too OP?

[Docteur_Fluttershy]

they removed stoneskin because it was considered too powerfull being based on HP.
18% would have been about 8k shield on a 40k hp tank, cumulated with other shielding it could have been used to ignore mechanics. That was on paper though, the real problem wasnt SS itself, but SS+other shielding, and mostly on tanks (since its hp based).

18% on a dps that has 20-25k HP is like 4-5k shield, which is about 300 potency more or less. On a tank it could go up to 8k, which is about 530 potency more or less.

And that was its former state, now on a dps it put a shield that's more or less as much as a regen tick, and on tank its about as high as a fairy embrace. For a higher cost of cure II. And we have a passive just to be able to have a casting time on it as fast as cure II. "Too Powerfull".

The fun fact is, AST can use SS, can use bole, can use disable, can use collective unconscious, with SC bubble, fairy damage reduction, virus, eye for an eye, and shield, which, all together, (since the reduction are all multiplicative), reduce damage by: 30%(bole), 10%(disable), 15%(virus), 20%(magical fairy reduction), 10% (dome), 10% (eye for an eye), and 10% (collective unconscious), with the SS (lets say 4k on tank) and sch shield (lets say 16k on crit, not gonna count the highest possible, but it can go way above that with mantra and other buffs), which bring us to the total of 20k shield, and a reduction of damage of 68.7% (more or less), which mean a tank of 40k hp can take a mechanic dealing initial damage of 160 000 and still be up with 10k HP, with no tank CD.

On the other hand, whm+sch can reduce of an amount of (dome+e4e+virus+fairy shield => 10 10 15 20 => 44.92%), meaning a tank with 40k hp can take a 90 000 and still be up with 10k hp, with no tank CD.

now, the same situations without SS: AST+SCH => 156k instead of 160k, WHM+SCH => 86k instead of 90k. With old 18% SS? just add 4k to each number instead of removing them.

In a team as solo heal (with a smn):
(not counting protect, tank/mnk int/str debuffs)
AST max reducing damage : 56.6% (enhanced bole+disable+CU+e4e+virus) +4k shield (SS)+ 12k shield (crit noct)
SCH max reducing damage: 44.92%(dome, e4e, virus, fairy shield) + 4k shield (SS) +20k shield (crit adlo with some buffs)
WHM max reducing damage: 23.5% (virus and e4e)+4k shield (SS)
take virus and e4e out of the equation (since smn have virus/e4e) => Whm has 0%, Sch has 28%, Ast has 43.3%.
(you can take ast without virus/e4e if you want, and you can also take into consideration DRK reducing intel and stuff like that)

The point i'm trying to make is, WHM has 0 inherent reducing damage ability, and only SS. Nerfing SS while releasing a healer that can further add to SCh already high damage reduction kit, using "%HP" as en excuse, was nonsense, unless dps had 120k hp and tank 200k, while still having the same healing capacity.

TLR;
Dev team was afraid WHM+SCH could mitigates too much with SS, so they nerfed it so AST+SCH could mitigates twice more even without SS.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

TLR;
Dev team was afraid WHM+SCH could mitigates too much with SS, so they nerfed it so AST+SCH could mitigates twice more even without SS.

I'll never, ever, get why they nerfed Stoneskin, WHMs only mitigation so hard. Then proceed to superbuff AST shields anyway. And on top of that, Stoneskin isn't even unique to us.

I swear they have it out for WHM.