Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[Hirmu]

And where exactly is it "Half their abilities"...
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Conjurer
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/White_Mage

I'm only seeing a couple of DD abilities... 3/4ths or more of their abilities are Healing abilities.

Let's see:


Pure dps:
Cleric Stance
Holy
Stone
Stone II
Stone III
Aero
Aero II
Aero III
Fluid Aura (lol)

Total: 9

Combined dps/healing/crowd control/MP:
Shroud of Saints
Presence of Mind
Assize
Repose

Total: 4

Pure healing/buff:
Divine Seal
Benediction
Stoneskin
Stoneskin II
Cure
Cure II
Cure III
Medica
Medica II
Asylum
Regen
Tetra
Raise
Esuna
Protect

Total: 15

I hope I didn't forget anything, cross-classes not included here.

So that's 9 dps ablities, 4 combined and 15 healing only abilities. So that's 13 vs 15, granted some of the dps abilites you won't be using in practice, like fluid aura but it doesn't mean they're not dps abilities. So yes, it's much closer to half than the 1/4 you suggested.

[Silverquick]

Let's see:

So that's 9 dps ablities, 4 combined and 15 healing only abilities. So that's 13 vs 15, granted some of the dps abilites you won't be using in practice, like fluid aura but it doesn't mean they're not dps abilities. So yes, it's much closer to half than the 1/4 you suggested.

I think you MEAN to say... its 8 DPS... and 15 Healing related.

So about 2/3rds healing abilities.

[Hirmu]

I think you MEAN to say... its 8 DPS... and 15 Healing related.

So about 2/3rds healing abilities.

You just don't budge even when facts are thrown right in front of you? Math is hard, I admit.

But no, that's exactly what I wrote, WHM has a total of 9 pure dps abilities, 1 damaging and healing ability, 2 abilities which critical in dps rotation, one crowd control and then there are 15 buff/healing abilities. So no matter how you twist the numbers, there's 28 abilities in total, and only 15 of them are healing abilities. 15 out of 28 is 53,5 %. You claimed earlier that 3/4 or 75 % of WHM abilities are healing abilities, then you claimed that it's 2/3 or 66,6 % which are both just plain wrong. The number is 53,5 %.

[Silverquick]

You just don't budge even when facts are thrown right in front of you? Math is hard, I admit.

But no, that's exactly what I wrote, WHM has a total of 9 pure dps abilities, 1 damaging and healing ability, 2 abilities which critical in dps rotation, one crowd control and then there are 15 buff/healing abilities. So no matter how you twist the numbers, there's 28 abilities in total, and only 15 of them are healing abilities. 15 out of 28 is 53,5 %. You claimed earlier that 3/4 or 75 % of WHM abilities are healing abilities, then you claimed that it's 2/3 or 66,6 % which are both just plain wrong. The number is 53,5 %.

No... sorry man, you are the one twisting it to mean what you want it to...

So badly.... I didn't even bother with a response.

I'll let everyone else be the judge of that.

What you really mean... is 8 DPS and 15 healing related... that's not 50%... and its not a DPS...

It takes two seconds to figure that out.

[Silverquick]

What is 8/15? It's 0.53 with an infinite number of 3s afterwards. I'm not even sure what you are saying. Hirmu is giving you actual numbers and you're here acting as if they're not numbers. Feelings can't argue with numbers, I'm sorry.

Its nothing, this dude was over exaggerating so I posted the actual abilities of the class... and it didn't say what he thought it did.

In a nutshell... yeah... the Healers have primarily healing abilities with only a few actual DPS abilities.

Exception of course was the SCH... which shares the base class Arcanist with the SMN.

[SargentToughie]

Its nothing, this dude was over exaggerating so I posted the actual abilities of the class... and it didn't say what he thought it did.

In a nutshell... yeah... the Healers have primarily healing abilities with only a few actual DPS abilities.

Exception of course was the SCH... which shares the base class Arcanist with the SMN.

Maybe.... It's you who's... incorrect about the potential of the class...

I have seen... healers... who have... beaten DPS... in expert dungeons... by being aggressive... And nobody ever died... Because they managed their regens...

Even... at a casual level... Healers can... very easily... contribute very meaningful DPS... While putting no risk on... the tank.

Think... about it this way... if... both healers... in an 8 man trial... DPS while sharing the healing burden... they can collectively... deal damage equal to... a DPS and a half!

That... is a ton... of added damage...

If a DPS job... ever comes out... that has even halfway decent... shields or regens... I promise they... will be... expected... to... use... them.

[Hirmu]

What you really mean... is 8 DPS and 15 healing related... that's not 50%... and its not a DPS...

Are you serious? I'm gonna try this one more time with you, I don't even know why but here goes. These are all of the WHM abilities:


Pure dps:

Cleric Stance
Holy
Stone
Stone II
Stone III
Aero
Aero II
Aero III
Fluid Aura

Total: 9

Combined dps/healing/crowd control/MP:

Shroud of Saints
Presence of Mind
Assize
Repose

Total: 4

Pure healing/buff:

Divine Seal
Benediction
Stoneskin
Stoneskin II
Cure
Cure II
Cure III
Medica
Medica II
Asylum
Regen
Tetra
Raise
Esuna
Protect

Total: 15

All in all there are 9 + 4 + 15 = 28 abilities. Feel free to use a calculator to verify. 15 abilities are healing abilities. So 15 out of 28. Maybe you should spend more than 2 seconds this time to figure this out.

[Atlaworks]

Snip

I'm not a big WHM person, but wouldn't holy be filed under section 2 as DPS/Crowd Control, given it's stun time? I know a lot of healers who use holy purely for the AoE stun as a form of damage mitigation.

[loreleidiangelo]

I'm not a big WHM person, but wouldn't holy be filed under section 2 as DPS/Crowd Control, given it's stun time? I know a lot of healers who use holy purely for the AoE stun as a form of damage mitigation.

It's also worth noting that Stones 1, 2 and 3 will never be used equivalently to one another; they're tiers of one same move and aren't cast as 3 separate abilities on a mob like Aero/II/III. Lumping PoM and Shroud as part of a greater total towards DPS moves is also disingenuous, IMO - better to just remove that category from the total outright. In return we'll dump Stoneskin II off the healing list as it's redundant, leaving us with 14 healing moves out of 22 total - fairly higher than 50% as originally stated.