Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[Silverquick]

You just don't budge even when facts are thrown right in front of you? Math is hard, I admit.

But no, that's exactly what I wrote, WHM has a total of 9 pure dps abilities, 1 damaging and healing ability, 2 abilities which critical in dps rotation, one crowd control and then there are 15 buff/healing abilities. So no matter how you twist the numbers, there's 28 abilities in total, and only 15 of them are healing abilities. 15 out of 28 is 53,5 %. You claimed earlier that 3/4 or 75 % of WHM abilities are healing abilities, then you claimed that it's 2/3 or 66,6 % which are both just plain wrong. The number is 53,5 %.

No... sorry man, you are the one twisting it to mean what you want it to...

So badly.... I didn't even bother with a response.

I'll let everyone else be the judge of that.

What you really mean... is 8 DPS and 15 healing related... that's not 50%... and its not a DPS...

It takes two seconds to figure that out.

[Silverquick]

What is 8/15? It's 0.53 with an infinite number of 3s afterwards. I'm not even sure what you are saying. Hirmu is giving you actual numbers and you're here acting as if they're not numbers. Feelings can't argue with numbers, I'm sorry.

Its nothing, this dude was over exaggerating so I posted the actual abilities of the class... and it didn't say what he thought it did.

In a nutshell... yeah... the Healers have primarily healing abilities with only a few actual DPS abilities.

Exception of course was the SCH... which shares the base class Arcanist with the SMN.

[SargentToughie]

Its nothing, this dude was over exaggerating so I posted the actual abilities of the class... and it didn't say what he thought it did.

In a nutshell... yeah... the Healers have primarily healing abilities with only a few actual DPS abilities.

Exception of course was the SCH... which shares the base class Arcanist with the SMN.

Maybe.... It's you who's... incorrect about the potential of the class...

I have seen... healers... who have... beaten DPS... in expert dungeons... by being aggressive... And nobody ever died... Because they managed their regens...

Even... at a casual level... Healers can... very easily... contribute very meaningful DPS... While putting no risk on... the tank.

Think... about it this way... if... both healers... in an 8 man trial... DPS while sharing the healing burden... they can collectively... deal damage equal to... a DPS and a half!

That... is a ton... of added damage...

If a DPS job... ever comes out... that has even halfway decent... shields or regens... I promise they... will be... expected... to... use... them.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

If a DPS job... ever comes out... that has even halfway decent... shields or regens... I promise they... will be... expected... to... use... them.

Funny... funny. Unfortunately, no dps with that kind of utility will ever actually be expected to use it. People don't want BLM's using Apoc, an amazing utility spell, because it interferes with their deeps without a proc. Similarly, no one expects or cares if a SMN use Virus or E4E, and pragmatically speaking, people don't even WANT MNK using Mantra.

Any class with that utility won't be expected or encouraged to use it under any circumstances, because 'MUH DEEPS'. Thanks for the chuckle though!

[SargentToughie]

Funny... funny. Unfortunately, no dps with that kind of utility will ever actually be expected to use it. People don't want BLM's using Apoc, an amazing utility spell, because it interferes with their deeps without a proc. Similarly, no one expects or cares if a SMN use Virus or E4E, and pragmatically speaking, people don't even WANT MNK using Mantra.

Any class with that utility won't be expected or encouraged to use it under any circumstances, because 'MUH DEEPS'. Thanks for the chuckle though!

That's not true at all. I don't know what groups you play with, but I've seen a ton of people get really mad at SMNs that don't use their single greatest utility, their battle res. As a Monk player, during A11S prog I was actually coordinating with healers, and timing my Mantra during high healer burst phases, like the DPS photon during pyretic, or that hell part in phase 4 where the 7 man photon comes out followed by two whirlwinds. My mantra became part of the rotation that our healers relied upon to clear the fight, whenever the healers stated that they needed it most. This is in addition to our SMN using virus on the Phase 4 Laser X sword so that our DRK could eat it without the WAR stacking with them.

Apoc is also an incredible tool that sees a lot of use whenever a player dies and needs protection during a boss's 'limit break' move where they smash the party. DPS that do not use their inherent utility should be instructed to start using their kit to the fullest of their potential.

[bardaboo]

Funny... funny. Unfortunately, no dps with that kind of utility will ever actually be expected to use it. People don't want BLM's using Apoc, an amazing utility spell, because it interferes with their deeps without a proc. Similarly, no one expects or cares if a SMN use Virus or E4E, and pragmatically speaking, people don't even WANT MNK using Mantra.

Any class with that utility won't be expected or encouraged to use it under any circumstances, because 'MUH DEEPS'. Thanks for the chuckle though!

you want another laugh? Heal an expert dungeon. Figure out how much spare time you could use to contribute dps. Then reevaluate your life

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

you want another laugh? Heal an expert dungeon. Figure out how much spare time you could use to contribute dps. Then reevaluate your life

I have. I go AFK half the run spamming DPS spells with either a macro or one hand while browsing the forums, and glance up after 7/8 casts to cast a cure on the tank before semi-AFKing because healer DPS is $%@#ing boring and I'd rather be doing anything else. I just happen to be both short on time and not in the mood to tank. But yeah, let's support such lazy healing design.

[Hirmu]

What you really mean... is 8 DPS and 15 healing related... that's not 50%... and its not a DPS...

Are you serious? I'm gonna try this one more time with you, I don't even know why but here goes. These are all of the WHM abilities:


Pure dps:

Cleric Stance
Holy
Stone
Stone II
Stone III
Aero
Aero II
Aero III
Fluid Aura

Total: 9

Combined dps/healing/crowd control/MP:

Shroud of Saints
Presence of Mind
Assize
Repose

Total: 4

Pure healing/buff:

Divine Seal
Benediction
Stoneskin
Stoneskin II
Cure
Cure II
Cure III
Medica
Medica II
Asylum
Regen
Tetra
Raise
Esuna
Protect

Total: 15

All in all there are 9 + 4 + 15 = 28 abilities. Feel free to use a calculator to verify. 15 abilities are healing abilities. So 15 out of 28. Maybe you should spend more than 2 seconds this time to figure this out.

[Atlaworks]

Snip

I'm not a big WHM person, but wouldn't holy be filed under section 2 as DPS/Crowd Control, given it's stun time? I know a lot of healers who use holy purely for the AoE stun as a form of damage mitigation.