Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[Silverquick]

There's a difference in efficiency, first of all physick is extremely weak on smn/blm, and secondly the smn/blm losing 1 dps gcd to cast physick would be a lot more than the healer's loss if they stop dpsing for 1 gcd to cast a heal. To match an actual heal you probably would have to use
physick 10 times, so it's a stupid tradeoff. A better comparison will be pld casting clemency during a big dungeon pull where the healer is spamming aoe dps spell. Pld has no aoe dps skill other than circle of scorn, so the pld casting a clemency (which is powerful, unlike physick) loses 1 single target dps gcd, while the healer might lose a lot more potency by stopping their holy/gravity spam to cast a cure/benefic.

Well guess what?

To me the WHM DPS is pretty weak... I already posted the link earlier regarding their DPS in comparison to the SMN, its quite literally half the damage.

So.... You would quite literally be asking me as a SMN to use my Physick simply because its on my roster or I'm a "Bad Summoner" under those guidelines...

Which is silly and stupid... Healing isn't my job as a SMN... that's the Healers job... my job is DPS... yeah I have a heal skill and a resurrect skill... but those only get used if the WHM or Healer is down....

Its not my job... its theirs... and telling me to get out and heal... because I CAN... or I'm a "Bad Summoner" is ludicrous and asinine.

Yeah I can if I want... but that is my option...

If you want to jump on healers for not healing properly... I'm with you...

But when you're telling them if they don't Pull the weight of the DPS classes alongside their healing abilities... or they suck... well no...

I'm not with you there...

If you have a problem with DPS... then maybe you should be casting a glance at your DDs instead.

Healers DPSing... well that's their option... and only your personal crap... not because its their actual job.

[Kitfox]

snip

If you refuse to use your Raise and Physick in a raid saving manner because it's not your job, you're a bad SMN. Sure, Physick usually won't help or save a run, that's where efficiency evaluation comes in. Raise, however, very often will. Refusing to use it is simply irrational.

Also, stop abusing ellipses! What did those poor dots ever do to you?!

[aleph_null]

snip

Yeah right half of an actual dps is weak, two healers would add up to one extra dps, which is probably ~15% of the total group dps. Idk but if you think that's weak then let's just disagree here. Keep in mind that those healers doing that kind of damage don't let their group mates die, they just get away with less healing than majority of healers because they know how to maximize the usage of their tools. For comparison your physick is far from half of an actual healer's heal, so there's that. Better examples would be things like raise, virus, apoc, mantra, shadewalker, smokescreen.

And again, I have no idea why people are so fixated on what is or isn't someone's "job", I always see it as: if you can do it and it helps the group then why not at least try? I don't agree with people verbally abusing or kicking healers who don't dps, since they might be new to the job or are still learning the timings of the fight, but I don't understand the people who outright refuse to try to contribute dps simply because it's not needed, not their job, not intended by the devs etc etc. If you refuse to contribute more for the group simply because you don't want to, despite the ability to do so, that sounds quite selfish to me.

In group contents sometimes you can do more than what's the bare minimum required of your role for the benefit of everyone. For example tanks/healers can do some mechanics intended for dps, to let them maintain their buffs easier and do more dmg on the boss (see a7s jails and a8s steam regulators), or maybe in a9s first wave of adds it's better for two healers to pick the generators instead of a healer and the OT, since tanks generally do more dps in their opener.

[bardaboo]

Well guess what?

To me the WHM DPS is pretty weak... I already posted the link earlier regarding their DPS in comparison to the SMN, its quite literally half the damage.

So.... You would quite literally be asking me as a SMN to use my Physick simply because its on my roster

If you have a problem with DPS... then maybe you should be casting a glance at your DDs instead.

Healers DPSing... well that's their option... and only your personal crap... not because its their actual job.

It's half of their abilities and it speeds up a run. Stop being stupid. Your argument is cancer.

[Silverquick]

It's half of their abilities and it speeds up a run. Stop being stupid. Your argument is cancer.

Cool... I'll wear that as a badge of honor if it came from you...

And where exactly is it "Half their abilities"...
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Conjurer
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/White_Mage

I'm only seeing a couple of DD abilities... 3/4ths or more of their abilities are Healing abilities.

Heck even Scholar is almost all healing...
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Scholar

I just happen to know at least SCH does get some DD abilities (especially DoTs) from the Arcanist side since its the same Base class.

I fail to see your point.

[Hirmu]

And where exactly is it "Half their abilities"...
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Conjurer
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/White_Mage

I'm only seeing a couple of DD abilities... 3/4ths or more of their abilities are Healing abilities.

Let's see:


Pure dps:
Cleric Stance
Holy
Stone
Stone II
Stone III
Aero
Aero II
Aero III
Fluid Aura (lol)

Total: 9

Combined dps/healing/crowd control/MP:
Shroud of Saints
Presence of Mind
Assize
Repose

Total: 4

Pure healing/buff:
Divine Seal
Benediction
Stoneskin
Stoneskin II
Cure
Cure II
Cure III
Medica
Medica II
Asylum
Regen
Tetra
Raise
Esuna
Protect

Total: 15

I hope I didn't forget anything, cross-classes not included here.

So that's 9 dps ablities, 4 combined and 15 healing only abilities. So that's 13 vs 15, granted some of the dps abilites you won't be using in practice, like fluid aura but it doesn't mean they're not dps abilities. So yes, it's much closer to half than the 1/4 you suggested.

[Silverquick]

Let's see:

So that's 9 dps ablities, 4 combined and 15 healing only abilities. So that's 13 vs 15, granted some of the dps abilites you won't be using in practice, like fluid aura but it doesn't mean they're not dps abilities. So yes, it's much closer to half than the 1/4 you suggested.

I think you MEAN to say... its 8 DPS... and 15 Healing related.

So about 2/3rds healing abilities.

[Hirmu]

I think you MEAN to say... its 8 DPS... and 15 Healing related.

So about 2/3rds healing abilities.

You just don't budge even when facts are thrown right in front of you? Math is hard, I admit.

But no, that's exactly what I wrote, WHM has a total of 9 pure dps abilities, 1 damaging and healing ability, 2 abilities which critical in dps rotation, one crowd control and then there are 15 buff/healing abilities. So no matter how you twist the numbers, there's 28 abilities in total, and only 15 of them are healing abilities. 15 out of 28 is 53,5 %. You claimed earlier that 3/4 or 75 % of WHM abilities are healing abilities, then you claimed that it's 2/3 or 66,6 % which are both just plain wrong. The number is 53,5 %.

[Silverquick]

You just don't budge even when facts are thrown right in front of you? Math is hard, I admit.

But no, that's exactly what I wrote, WHM has a total of 9 pure dps abilities, 1 damaging and healing ability, 2 abilities which critical in dps rotation, one crowd control and then there are 15 buff/healing abilities. So no matter how you twist the numbers, there's 28 abilities in total, and only 15 of them are healing abilities. 15 out of 28 is 53,5 %. You claimed earlier that 3/4 or 75 % of WHM abilities are healing abilities, then you claimed that it's 2/3 or 66,6 % which are both just plain wrong. The number is 53,5 %.

No... sorry man, you are the one twisting it to mean what you want it to...

So badly.... I didn't even bother with a response.

I'll let everyone else be the judge of that.

What you really mean... is 8 DPS and 15 healing related... that's not 50%... and its not a DPS...

It takes two seconds to figure that out.

[Faliandra]

...some of the dps abilites you won't be using in practice, like fluid aura ...

Ehhh...why not? I use it ALL. THE. TIME.

Even in casual roulette content, there are plenty of mobs at later levels, that DO NOT get a knockback, so its a great filler skill to use.
If im not sure if it causes a knock back or not, I'll just use it when the mob's hp is low enough to get killed off by it, so whether it gets knocked back or not doesnt really matter.
If it still survives, well, then I'll take care of it if you just let me finish another 2 second cast that it will take to kill it . Dont run after it and complain i knocked it back. Especially not when theres another mob next to you you could be hitting instead.

In any trials or raids,it will never cause a knock back, so not using it is a big potential dps waste.

Also, in some cases it can even be used as a way to interrupt a mob's cast that you dont want to go off (although i dont really use it that way...or, very rarely at least)