Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[BigRed5392]

Elitistst (Read: I disagree with you)

Seriously though, drop of the hat usage of Elitist has practically made it a compliment at this point.

im going by the definition.

e·lit·ist
əˈlēdəst,āˈlēdəst/
adjective
1.
relating to or supporting the view that a society or system should be led by an elite.
"older men with an elitist attitude about music"
noun
1.
a person who believes that a society or system should be led by an elite.
"critics portray him as an out-of-touch elitist"
synonyms: aristocrat, blue blood; snob
"the elitists wield too much influence"

which is correct, and not a compliment, you guys are taking out of raid content TOO seriously and stressing people out over fictional runs that are "15-20 min" longer.

you guys do kinda come off rude, and immature because you put blame on the incorrect people. Blame if people who's main role is to deal damage, not a role who's damage is a welcomed bonus.

I don't disagree with healers doing dps, but i don't force them, and none of my runs (which is a lot) are longer because they don't. Most of my longest runs are because of dps players not dealing good damage because of being in out of date gear, or not understanding their job,, or at worst 2 dps attacking 2 different mobs.

[Greedalox]

im going by the definition.

I think you missed the part about it being thrown around too easily to the point that within this community it's borderline a compliment.

[Atos]

I've yet to hear a single argument by this community that this game offers full or near chain healing expectations out of a healer. That is mainly agreed upon. I don't tell you how to play either, I'm saying I and apparently many others in the community have a basic expectation out of you- apparently more than you have for yourself?

Healers heal for 20% of the time, and THEN they do nothing. Sorry misconception I may have spread to make you think I said they 100% of the time do nothing.

You do you, no matter how many people agree or disagree with your laze, you always have full control. Nobody has ever said anything about taking that from you. I hope you're not asserting that other players be revoked of their rights to kick you though for laziness.

Chain healing is a strawman, MP management is a big deal as well. You can easily leave yourself with no mp by blowing it on dps. There are other reasons too, but I'm pretty sure you ignore them in favor of your own narrative. And while you did not explicitly tell me what to do, that's what you're implying. There are plenty of posts that explicitly demand that healers dps. And where did that 20% come from? You evaluate what a healer does based on your own assumption, go heal for a bit yourself before talking.

[Greedalox]

Chain healing is a strawman, MP management is a big deal as well. You can easily leave yourself with no mp by blowing it on dps. There are other reasons too, but I'm pretty sure you ignore them in favor of your own narrative. And while you did not explicitly tell me what to do, that's what you're implying. There are plenty of posts that explicitly demand that healers dps. And where did that 20% come from? You evaluate what a healer does based on your own assumption, go heal yourself for a bit before talking.

If you're not chain healing a massive pull, you have time to DPS. It's not a strawman. You can also stop DPS'ing if you're about to put yourself in a critical MP state (It's a strawman to assume anybody is arguing OOMing yourself with DPS).

The 20/80 is based off a wonderful video that was created by someone in the healer forums and then analyzed and broken down. What it depicted was less than 20% of the time there was Healing casted during pulls, and 80% of the time was doing the Manderville Dance (/mdance).
It wasn't a random percentage pulled out of my ass . But that would have been based off your own assumption, wouldn't it?

Edit: Oh I didn't see that you offered me the advice to play a healer for insight on the matter. I play AST at 60! Thank you though.

[Ralts]

I don't have any problems dpsing as a healer in instances, but to be honest here, i rather be spamming different kind of heals, because mobs or the boss hit hard(the reason i chose healer as my main class) squeenix should really stop underestimating healers in 4-man dungeons and up the difficulty and to add, they should block the use of cleric stance when in instances. I really prefer the ragnarok online style of healing/buffing(as a healer), whereas even as a healer, i was the most active in groups and that without the need to deal any dmg. But yeah, ff14 is a different game, but it's a wishful thinking to make the most players be comfortable with their preferred role.

[Taika]

And where did that 20% come from? You evaluate what a healer does based on your own assumption, go heal for a bit yourself before talking.

I did Xelphatol back when it was a current expert dungeon as WHM (i249 back when higher item level gear was already available with Scripture tomes). As I was only healing, I was only active for 17% of the dungeon with over 35% overheal. I did not have to cast a single Cure spell during the pulls. The tank didn't even have any current gear for that patch.

Here's my original post about it:

Yesterday I did some testing on how it really is like to only heal in expert roulette, which I think is a good example because it's content probably ran by majority of player base this discussion is relevant to.

I queued to expert roulette as WHM and we got Xelpathol. In addition to me, the party consisted of a WAR who had never tanked the dungeon before (no endgame experience as WAR), a BLM (his Savage job, currently on A11S progression), and a DRG (no endgame experience as DRG). So quite a random party composition with people more or less familiar with their roles in that dungeon.

The WAR pulled as much as he could at the time (not knowing the dungeon as tank he failed this a couple of times) and I would only use my healing abilities. This was the result, my every single heal cast for the whole 21 min dungeon run:

- Regen x24
- Medica II x16
- Asylum x7
- Assize x4
- Cure II x5 (between pulls, not during them)
- Tetra x4

So in addition to Medica II, the only thing I actually had to cast in the whole dungeon was Cure II, which I did a total of 5 times (between pulls, not during them). Everything else was instant cast abilities. I also used Eye for an Eye on tank and sometimes Esuna, and I cast stoneskin on everyone between pulls.

Even with this little use of healing, my overheal was 35,9%, so the actual healing requirements for this dungeon are even lower. I was active 17% of the whole dungeon while the rest of my group members were active 72-77% of the dungeon.

This is a perfect example of the low healing requirements in the game and how it causes a huge activity difference between a healer who doesn't DPS and their group members. On that run I did not contribute nearly as much as my group members, in fact I was using /icam and doing /mandervilledance while they were actually making an effort. If it would have been the tank or a DD only being active 17% of the time and dancing and idling for the rest, they would have been removed from the party, but for me, some people would actually argue I was doing just fine.

I took a video of the whole run and uploaded it in case someone's interested. This is the final boss fight, during which the only things I actually cast were 3 Medica IIs. Other than that, I used Regen (4), Assize (2) and Asylum (2). Here's the direct link to the fight: https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=17m17s

TLDR: Not DPSing as a healer means you're just being carried by your group members for over 80% of the dungeon time.

My question is, why is it good enough participation from a healer to only use 1-3 abilities every minute, while this would not be accepted for a tank or DD? The only argument I've seen for this for now has basically been "it's ok for them because their jobs are called healers", which just isn't very convincing.

[SenorPatty]

The difference is you're trying to make the worst out of a bad situation.

How?

I don't know if you've read some of my other posts in this thread but just to reiterate, I am advocating playstyle differences.

I would hate to think that I'm the only player in my server or across servers who on a daily basis in DF roulettes, on average my parties are good. Sometimes even greater than expected and once in a long while pretty bad.

During the good runs, sometimes I've had healers who only healed but our dps was already over the top to begin with so it wasn't noticeable.

So in the end, it basically boils to what you can or can't stomach, even during a good run. As I've said in another post, as long as the flow of the run is smooth and good to me, I don't care if the healer is only healing. If they dps, even better. I'm not against that.

Unfortunately, there are people who can't stomach that. For them, its a visual eyesore seeing inaction because of the mentality that since they're always doing something in a run, everyone else should be doing it too, including the healer. For others, its impatience. Doesn't matter that the run is already going fast to begin with (tank mass pulling, dps melting everything), healer has to dps to save that extra minute. And for others, its ego. If they're already giving their 100% by their standards, so should everyone else, healer included.

Do what you can and if you can't, so be it but let us not get caught up about what healers should be doing when they're already fulfilling their primary obligations in faceroll content.

[Greedalox]

How?

Well, I think we both agree that FF14 has a huge design flaw with Healer uptime. The difference is how we advocate making the best out of the bad situation of Healers not having to heal (That much). I say Healers should FEEL obligated to fill that vast empty time. I can't do anything about it besides try to make a point of these forums. You chock up nebulous need for heals to play style. If you feel being lazy for ANY class and not just healer is a play style, then I don't know what to tell you other than that feels like just another way of saying "I don't want to do very much at all."

You can tell when healers are struggling. It's not the ones who are AFK. That's where my issue lies, not with those who spam and overheal out of discomfort.

[bardaboo]

going above your role is welcomed, but shouldn't be expected or forced. Playing properly is tanks tanking, dps dpsing and healers healing. .

Healers have a skill that allows them to dps, 30-40% of their abilities are dps abilities. So please explain how ignoring half of their toolkit is performing their roll acceptably

[AkashiXI]

There's no difficult content in this game outside raids and the occasional extreme primal. If I see a healer that isn't dpsing in a dungeon, three thoughts come to mind.

1) They're being lazy. Some say that's them winding down from a long day, or chilling, or relaxing, etc.
2) They have anxiety or some sort of disability that prevents them from multi tasking. I've met quite a few healer mains who say this is a crippling issue, and I completely sympathize with this point (and why I never get agrressive with calling out a healer)
3) Not skilled enough. This, imo, is perfectly acceptable for any non endgame content.

Those who say they don't dps because their job is to heal are those who refuse to do anything but the bare minimum, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with your personal play style, your idea of what the game should be, or what yoshida envisioned. It has everything to do with how the game is mechanically structured and the play style it rewards: dps.