I280 weapons were a mistake

[Kosmos992k]

The fact that SE had to put a i280 in there just to get people to consider doing it really just proves how good the content really is.

Just take a look at PoTD. It only offers 255 weapons, but........people still do Palace. Honestly, Diadem was a failure, It's fundamentally flawed. SE should've just let it rot.

It doesn't matter how good content is, in this game players have shown time and again that they will only run content that progresses their gear, even if that means farm spamming content until the point of burnout. The quality of content is irrelevant to far too many players so long as the shineys are better than the shineys they have already.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It doesn't matter how good content is, in this game players have shown time and again that they will only run content that progresses their gear, even if that means farm spamming content until the point of burnout. The quality of content is irrelevant to far too many players so long as the shineys are better than the shineys they have already.

Except the drop rate on those weapons are so astronomically low few will bother. In fact, plenty of raiders have quit the game entirely-- be it until Stormblood or indefinitely-- due to it ruining their speed runs. You know what would make people run Diadem? More fights like the Emergency Mission. Put rewards behind speed kills, how many players died and other achievement like things. EX Primals are worthless to any raider who can clear Savage yet how many funnel in because they want the mounts? A 280 weapon isn't going to entice many people.

[Kosmos992k]

Except the drop rate on those weapons are so astronomically low few will bother. In fact, plenty of raiders have quit the game entirely-- be it until Stormblood or indefinitely-- due to it ruining their speed runs. You know what would make people run Diadem? More fights like the Emergency Mission. Put rewards behind speed kills, how many players died and other achievement like things. EX Primals are worthless to any raider who can clear Savage yet how many funnel in because they want the mounts? A 280 weapon isn't going to entice many people.

Ok then, if it is that worthless, why is everyone so salty?

[Lambdafish]

Ok then, if it is that worthless, why is everyone so salty?

Because they don't want the gear that they spent dedicated amounts of time and effort getting to be worthless just so Diadem can get a few more people participating?

[Gemina]

Because they don't want the gear that they spent dedicated amounts of time and effort getting to be worthless just so Diadem can get a few more people participating?

That isn't it at all. A big reason why I still did my Zodiac relic despite how outdated it is, is because I knew that it would still be one of the best weapons I can have until about halfway through HW. And because I progress so slowly, I knew I would still have a lot of time enjoying it before I would have to upgrade. Despite my late coming into the game, this alone lets me know that when 3.0 launched, those who completed the zodiac weapon quest had a BiS until what? 3.2? Several months after the expansion was released? Using it as a glamour was a very distant second.

Before this patch, I had an amicable argument with my FC leader about relics, Lucis tools, and current endgame crafting/gathering gear. Her stance was that there was no point working on the anima weapon quest or the endgame crafting/gathering gear when the next patch will just introduce something to beat it out. I - what I thought was a logical argument at the time - told her that there is NO way that anything will be introduced into the game that beats these out until a couple patches into stormblood. I felt this was a calculated and smart argument to make based off the HW expansion. Let me tell ya, I logged in tonight saying, "Don't tell me, 'Told ya so'" before anyone could say anything. To add insult to inury, the FC leader has never even played XI, or any other FF title before or after it. This game was her first FF anything.

Imagine how this makes me feel as a FF loyalist? I was proven wrong by one who is more familiar with the current meta of MMO gaming than I am with the FF franchise. Proven wrong, because I placed faith in my familiarity with this franchise. Perhaps this is where all of those who are upset went wrong. Today was a very sad day for many players. Two from my FC members unsubbed. I'm praying that it was just an emotional reflex, and they'll be back after they calmed down.

[A_Hortensia]

The community has been sculpted and conditioned into having an expectation of how content is going to be released and handled. The fact that the i280 even EXISTS, is driving people crazy because it's not the usual way people are used to. (Edit: In reference to the timing.)

This shouldn't work you up though and feel betrayed by the developers; this should open up conversation about the 4.0 battle system changes though. People need to realize it's not as simple as poor timing for a patch; but why is it that higher damage on a weapon alone can make all other weapons not as good?

Doesn't that bother you that there's nothing unique about your hard earned relic or raid weapon?

[Lambdafish]

The community has been sculpted and conditioned into having an expectation of how content is going to be released and handled. The fact that the i280 even EXISTS, is driving people crazy because it's not the usual way people are used to. (Edit: In reference to the timing.)

This is true. In the 4 year history of the game, there has NEVER been a weapon that is better than a raid weapon. Hell, in the first patch cycle people complained because the relic could be gotten easily and was i90, and so was the raid weapon (which they then changed to i95). The fact that they wanted to distinguish the raid weapon as the best weapon says a lot about what the content is supposed to represent.

Later relic was expanded upon and became an equivilent to the raid weapon after a long process of various steps, and thus we had two endgame models, both of which are equally time consuming, and this design works.

Diadem weapons are an anomaly, a reckless, head scratching, cancer of an anomaly. First off, they introduce a brand new kind of endgame (which relates to your discussion about 4.0 changes), that being RNG (previously put under the umbrella of the relic process). The idea now being that you can get a BiS ilvl weapon through skill, grind, or RNG. This is a huge thing, but SE took it a step further and made the weapon i280. What this does is it breaks down the entire meaning of endgame BiS, as there are no longer 3 equally balanced pillars, but rather one pillar with two supports underneith it. Had the weapon been i275 it would have been seen as fine no matter what the stats were, because the community perception is that it would be equivilent, whereas making it i280 effectively makes it the only endgame, with relic and savage being a stepping stone towards it, much like tomestone weapons are.

[Dement]

That isn't it at all. A big reason why I still did my Zodiac relic despite how outdated it is, is because I knew that it would still be one of the best weapons I can have until about halfway through HW. And because I progress so slowly, I knew I would still have a lot of time enjoying it before I would have to upgrade. Despite my late coming into the game, this alone lets me know that when 3.0 launched, those who completed the zodiac weapon quest had a BiS until what? 3.2? Several months after the expansion was released? Using it as a glamour was a very distant second.

If this is your thinking and plan for your anima, I feel it's probably best to tell you that the Zodiac was a relevant weapon for a week or two at best for most people in Heavensward. It was outclassed by dungeon drops and white gear starting around level 55. It was usable beyond 57 but was no where near as good as dungeon weapons and HQ crafted weapons. By level 60 it was already completely worthless beyond glamour and using it to get past the crystal farming phase of anima. Just so that you're not shocked in SB when it's the same scenario.

[Kosmos992k]

Because they don't want the gear that they spent dedicated amounts of time and effort getting to be worthless just so Diadem can get a few more people participating?

Given the drop rate, how is i270 gear worthless? Given RNG stat values, how is i270 gear worthless? I just don't see how a rare drop with uncertain stats stacks against current BiS. When Diadem first launched this same situation occurred, but the Frankenstein-weapons that some got were clearly inferior to current BiS at the time.

Honestly, this kind of over sensitive, instant panic makes end gamers and raiders look extremely insecure.

Miste pointed out that my original sentence I was both over generalizing and appeared to be insulting, and I apologize. It was a little barbed I will admit, and thta totally obscured the point I was trying to make. Here is a far better worded and clearer version of what I was trying to say.

Those complaining broadly speaking appear to be those who already have end game/raiding weapons and gear. By and large, that group does not include very many casual players - almost by definition. Logically the majority of the complaints about the i280 weapon are coming from end game players and raiders. Given the precarious nature of the i280 weapon and it's stats - due to RNG as well as the relatively low drop rate and conditions, I honestly can't see how anyone already possessing one or more i270 weapons has any significant reason to complain about it.

Which brings me back to the point I was making, and apparently botched. I don't think that those players should feel so insecure about their well earned gear even in the face of this thing in Diadem 2. Quite apart from anything else, those best placed to acquire that weapon are those very same players. I call it insecurity because the nature of the reaction and it's strength suggests that players complaining are not very secure or happy in their gear because they perceive this i280 as invalidating their prior efforts. I don't think anyone should feel that way, and in fact I'd suggest that the things earned before put you in a great position to obtain the i280 which I (for example) and many other more casual players will almost certainly never acquire. So, shy feel so insecure about your gear in relation to the i280 weapon in Diadem?

[Miste]

Honestly, this kind of over sensitive, instant panic makes end gamers and raiders look extremely insecure.

Don't generalize. I'm sure you are better than that :/

I could flip this sentence that you just wrote to the other side... to a generalization about "casuals", but that wouldn't be very nice right?

If people are unhappy with something they share feedback. What type of player they are is irrelevant.

I know things eventually all get invalidated, but like I said before 9 days after is way too soon to bring out something better. End of March? Sure. 9 days? Je ne comprends pas.

Considering the relic took awhile to make and each player put quite a bit of time into it...give the players time to enjoy their accomplishment before adding something better that you have to farm.