I280 weapons were a mistake

[MicahZerrshia]

I don't even understand what the point is to get i280 weapons, I mean if it drops great, if not its no big. Its not like we are getting anymore bigger and better content that it will be useful on anymore at this point. They are just going to be glamour or traded for gc seals in a couple months.

If SE gave me a reason to get this in a utility sense it would be great and I would grind one out but I really don't see the point of putting a i280 weapon into diadem instead of a i275 one unless they were so unsure of their own design they felt they needed to put the highest ilvl stuff in there rather then making equal to top raid gear for it to be another avenue to gear. That and just to spit on relic holders like they did at the end of ARR. "The relics will always be relevant! ...as glamour teehee"

This would have been great about 6 months ago when it was actually useful to be able to gear multiple jobs cause you were going to actually use them for stuff. Now it just looks like they don't feel they released content good enough to do without the highest of rewards possible.

[Aquaslash]

unless they were so unsure of their own design they felt they needed to put the highest ilvl stuff in there rather then making equal to top raid gear for it to be another avenue to gear. That and just to spit on relic holders like they did at the end of ARR. "The relics will always be relevant! ...as glamour teehee"

.

This is what this decision tells me. Cause we all know, at the end of the day they could have just made the diadem fun. I guarantee if it was enjoyable content, people would do it with NO reward. But Nope, gotta have FATE grinding for the 98st time

[Jijifli]

This is what this decision tells me. Cause we all know, at the end of the day they could have just made the diadem fun. I guarantee if it was enjoyable content, people would do it with NO reward. But Nope, gotta have FATE grinding for the 98st time

So if we removed all gear potential you can get from expert, you'd still do expert?

And your previous roulettes? Like Main Scenario?

Because if so, then you don't need your anima weapon or savage weapon. Because it was about the fun content, right? Otherwise you wouldn't have done it.

[MicahZerrshia]

So if we removed all gear potential you can get from expert, you'd still do expert?

And your previous roulettes? Like Main Scenario?

Because if so, then you don't need your anima weapon or savage weapon. Because it was about the fun content, right? Otherwise you wouldn't have done it.

No, what he is saying is they had to make the rewards better than anything out there currently because they know the system is so flawed that it would only get attention from the playerbase in a large enough number the justify redoing it by putting top ranked gear in it instead of making the gear the same ilvl with random stats so they diadem is another avenue to gear alt (sometimes main) jobs.

They use FATES as a crutch. They are the most highly complained about content in the game and they just cannot stop forcing them down our collective throats.

[Jijifli]

No, what he is saying is they had to make the rewards better than anything out there currently because they know the system is so flawed that it would only get attention from the playerbase in a large enough number the justify redoing it by putting top ranked gear in it instead of making the gear the same ilvl with random stats so they diadem is another avenue to gear alt (sometimes main) jobs.

They use FATES as a crutch. They are the most highly complained about content in the game and they just cannot stop forcing them down our collective throats.

He said people would do Diadem even if there was nothing in it, if it was fun.

So I'm asking if he finds other content he does fun, and would do it if there was absolutely no reward out of it. Since if he, for example, found the questline for anima fun, then he shouldn't be worried about the reward because it's the experience that counts.

[Miste]

However, if you remember the reaction to the original Diadem gear, and look at the ridiculous number of topics on the General Discussion forum about i280 weapons in Diadem 2 you have to concede that there is an extreme reaction and it's not a small number of people reacting.

That is the point though...you concede a lot of people are upset by this, but you don't agree their reasons are valid. If you wanna have that opinion then fine, but seeing as quite a lot ARE upset doesn't that warrant that MAYBE this wasn't the best idea? Generally the more people you annoy the less likely the action taken was a good one.

You can't really compare Diadem v1 to Diadem v2. They were different situations. One gave same item level gear as raid/upgraded sets (i210), the other gives i280 weapon (which is the most important piece for all jobs) and it is 5-10 item levels higher than what raid/relic/upgraded weapons give.

I call it insecurity because the nature of the reaction and it's strength suggests that players complaining are not very secure or happy in their gear

As for your idea about insecurity not all of us dislike i280 because of that. I can dislike something without being insecure about it (like I dislike the /playdead emote ended up in cash shop, but am I insecure without it? No, and I don't feel unhappy with what I do have access to by paying my monthly sub just because I don't have /playdead).

Basically you are trying to attach an emotion/feeling onto others that you think they are feeling due to their reaction, but in the end that is just how you personally think they feel. Unless you sit down and talk to all of them you don't really know exactly how they feel about it as feelings are very convoluted and hard to express sometimes. Through text? You aren't going to get the emotion conveyed properly or at all.

Logically the majority of the complaints about the i280 weapon are coming from end game players and raiders.

I don't know if you can just outright claim this with no factual statistics. I know some casual players who are upset since they just completed relic and it got bumped out of best weapon in 9 days.

In general I think you are missing the fact that the statistics of course would be skewed because anyone who is below level 60 (and somewhere below avg item level 250) wouldn't have any experience with the item levels people are discussing at the moment (i275 relic, i275 savage, i270 shire weapon, and i280 diadem). So this issue mostly pertains to end-game, raiders, and relic owners. If that is what the issue pertains to then those are the ones who are voicing opinions.

It's kind of like if someone made a topic saying "Savage Raids are too punishing" - most of the opinions in there will be from savage raiders...because that is what the issue pertains to. So in the end what type of player the person is who is complaining depends on the issue therefore isn't really relevant or a reason to claim they have no significant reasons to complain.

If you want to argue against there being an issue then argue to refute the specific points being made by people. Bringing what type of player they are into the argument does nothing except make you look biased.

Whether someone is casual, or a raider etc isn't relevant to the complaints since players of both types have weapons they could get. Relic for non-raiders, and savage weapons for raiders.

I honestly can't see how anyone already possessing one or more i270 weapons has any significant reason to complain about it.

Well you might be unable to understand since you aren't in the same position unless you've completed a 3.0 relic or raided 3.0.

[Ceasaria]

So I want to sum up :

Players (from what I remember) :
“For each patch, it’s always the same previsible thing with no surprise. I can tell you next patch, it will be two dungeons, one trial, one raid 24 man, mounts…It’s always the same cycle”
“Heavensward is just a copy of Realm Reborn. Square Enix need to take risk.”
“The endgame gear content (and midcore content) is lacking, we have only raid gear, script gear and relic (and trial and PotD)”
“There is nothing to do !”

SE (They never say that, but they could think really this way) :
“Hi fellow adventurers, we wanted to take risk this time with this new Diadem by breaking the usual cycle of gear content but also by giving you the opportunity to get new gears. If you didn't play the last Diadem, consider this as a new mean to obtain very good gears. Take out your relic and raid weapon, and face the boss in those dangerous lands, and more especially those in the emergency mission. This is the last major content you get until Stormblood. I hope you will enjoy this, because it’s a preview of what awaits you with Eureka.”

All the Diadem haters replies…

I know the Diadem is not the best thing in this game.
Run Fates again and again is not fun.
All loots is about RNG (some may like, other not).
But we have missions to guide us.
Extremely rare weapons could be obtained in an epic fight beside dozen of players.
Many good ideas came from players who cares about Diadem to improve it.
Caves should be used for a different activity (mini dungeon maybe ?)
Proto Ultima should be here
Reduce the amount of fates and put more original quests.
Add more different emergency missions ?
Etc.

So guys, what do you want ?

If you don’t like it, and don’t try to see why SE did that, what could be improved, etc., if you don’t encourage risk taking, SE will continue to serve what they did for almost 4 years with some adding here and there.
You don’t like the fact there is a ilvl weapon 280 ? Please, suggest something useful instead to cry (nice try with the topic about horizontal progression). Ah yeah, play the new Diadem before to talk (yep, I saw that on french forum, anti-diadem guys talk but never did Diadem lol).

People want to see changes and see risks, but when it come, they whine because it’s not what they have expected, because they are took away from their comfort zone, because they thought everything is inked in the marbre.

It’s a certainty some people are not ready that Square Enix takes risks.
Maybe SE could talk more often on forum (like they did with PVP), especially personals messages from Yoshida, and try to know if players are ready for this kind of content, this kind of direction, and explained why they want to do this (or why they did it).

To conclude, I want to say, if people are upset, it’s because, there is a misunderstanding somehow, in the design choice, in the promise SE did to a part of the community (those who do raids, those who do relics). When something major change without explanations, it bring us to what we are now living. I hope Yoshida could answer to all fans at PAX East later.