Should SE do something about PvE toxitiy?*point PvP change*

[aesteval]

The quoted is talking about premades in PvE, not PvP. They are toxic, harass random people and even vote kick people for no reason.

"They" - please don't lump all premades into one group, not all premades are bad actors.

[BigRed5392]

Honestly? These are wannabe raiders. The vast majority don't have some stick up their butt when doing leveling content. Not to mention, this particular Monk sounds more like a troll or an idiot with no idea how to even play. I wouldn't call him a raider.

he called himself a raider from what she said not her. He was using it to try and one up her when she called him out. My other comments are about the meta bleed in effect.

but with that said I agree with you. These players think the meta is word of god, and all must follow regardless of knowing about it. My g/f has been gaming since 3 years old mainly playing LoZ games, and other stuff. She is used to paying attention to everything around her, and doesn't tunnel vision, very rare she would but will own up to mistakes.

[BigRed5392]

Right; I get why it was frustrating. It's just that being a jerk to someone (being sarcastic absolutely counts) is never going to improve an already-bad situation. By all means dig your heels in and get forceful, but rudely making fun of them to the entire group is rightfully going to annoy people - I'd probably have left too even if I was some irrelevant DPS player not being yelled at. Are you even sure they understood? Ask me to 'cleric less' or vaguely say you're having a hard time without any context and I'll probably have no idea what you mean, and I'm natively fluent in English - a good portion of the playerbase isn't.

I feel like a lot of people are quick to assume the worst when it's their own communication which could use work. I'm not that healer, but I've been in groups with rubbish communicators before and if they're going to work themselves into a tizz and rage at people instead of speaking more clearly then they have to accept they're part of the problem. I don't like playing with people who make fun of others rather than trying to resolve the problem. Sarcasm never resolves problems.

assumption doesn't help either. Ask more questions to clarify. People are taking 1% of Ama's thread posts and assuming too much with out thoroughly reading it. And try to do the blame game instead of seeing what really happens.

the savage raiding meta does bleed into non raid content, and it can , and does ruin content for other players. My g/f has been on the receiving end of it since she really started to play. She always asks for tips, apologizes for her mistakes and tries to learn from them. It isn't easy when you got people who claim to be top tier raiders give her a hard time, using that raid achievement as a badge of honor, and a free pass to harass everyone saying they are to blame, that the fact they raid means they are not the problem and are a good player.

very much like the mnk my g/f ran into in the vault.

is everyone guilty? nope, i'm only pointing to the ones who do this. Just because a person isn't a top tier raider doesn't make them automatically a bad person, or bad at playing the game.

[Serilda]

Asking for help from a 270 pure gear healer and 275 relic when everyone is under 50% should not be explained in detail what it means when asked "can you help heal a bit more and dps less?"

Casting DPS spells when people are in badly in need of heals is not assuming anything

Dun is STILL A RAID! A place that needs TWO healers, not one, per party.

Except I'm not saying you didn't need help, or that healer DPS is more important than keeping people alive and stopping the other healer having a heart attack from stress. I'm saying that complaining about people being toxic by giving examples of your friends being toxic to others in response to perceived toxicity is feeding the cycle of misery. Anyone can get ilv 270 gear with a relic if they put some time in and play with friends. It doesn't mean they know exactly what your friend wants them to do in a situation like the one being described - because in a lot of raids, leaving all of the healing to one healer and messing around with your fairy out is a perfectly valid strategy.

Seriously, as a bystander in that kind of situation I would just leave myself rather than cringe through the rest of the dungeon with an awkward atmosphere hanging over the group. Thankfully, the players on my datacenter don't treat one another that way.

[Ilan]

the moar dps mentality came from alexander savage though. healers were not forced to dps till that was released. dps didn't spam their buffs at pull till then.
Raid mentalities always bleed into the average content. Look at over watch people who follow the e-sport scene or the 1%, force that meta on to the average players And it ripples.

to play properly is to work with the team. No more or less. People forgot that in 3.0. They wanna do w.e they wanna do and don't care who they step on. Pretty much it is the meta mentality that spreads.

Note i said raid meta/scene... not players

think you need to cool your jets a little and read the whole post, instead of 1 line.

No the problem is still not the meta of doing as much dps as possible. The problem are the people who don't give a f... and just press 1,2,3 at max, ignore every mechanic and let others carry their butts in every content. You don't have to pull a billion dps, just try to play your classes with the given possiblitys.

I can understand when people get angry over something like that when they give 100% in dungeons and others are giving 10% or less and that has nothing to do with meta or raid scene it is respect for the people you are playing with.

[LunaFaye]

Asking for help from a 270 pure gear healer and 275 relic when everyone is under 50% should not be explained in detail what it means when asked "can you help heal a bit more and dps less?"

Casting DPS spells when people are in badly in need of heals is not assuming anything

Dun is STILL A RAID! A place that needs TWO healers, not one, per party.

Incorrect, it isn't a raid and never will be. Sure SE puts it under the raiding category in duty finder but that still doesn't make it a raid. It also doesn't need 2 healers. We learned in ARR content already (min ilvl not over geared) that most content can be healed by one healer aka solo healed. That continues into HW and while I do see some players struggling, it's pretty simple to heal/tank all regular content with only one tank/healer, if people get an understanding of their jobs.

I am pretty sure, if your friend wouldn't have put that sarcasm into the sentence, and would have just simply stated that he/she is not able to solo heal the content, that the other healer would have been more than happy to pick up the slack or help out a little bit more. But saying, dps less and heal or you are aware you need to drop cleric stance to be able to heal right? is maybe not something a lot of people would react on. In fact I can see how that would cause just the opposite and would be ignored by most people, including myself.

[Ama_Hamada]

Except I'm not saying you didn't need help, or that healer DPS is more important than keeping people alive and stopping the other healer having a heart attack from stress. I'm saying that complaining about people being toxic by giving examples of your friends being toxic to others in response to perceived toxicity is feeding the cycle of misery. Anyone can get ilv 270 gear with a relic if they put some time in and play withfriends. It doesn't mean they know exactly what your friend wants them to do in a situation like the one being described - because in a lot of raids, leaving all of the healing to one healer and messing around with your fairy out is a perfectly valid strategy.

Seriously, as a bystander in that kind of situation I would just leave myself rather than cringe through the rest of the dungeon with an awkward atmosphere hanging over the group. Thankfully, the players on my datacenter don't treat one another that way.

Wow, so you are telling me it is best not to say anything and let people die?

Incorrect, it isn't a raid and never will be. Sure SE puts it under the raiding category in duty finder but that still doesn't make it a raid. It also doesn't need 2 healers. We learned in ARR content already (min ilvl not over geared) that most content can be healed by one healer aka solo healed. That continues into HW and while I do see some players struggling, it's pretty simple to heal/tank all regular content with only one tank/healer, if people get an understanding of their jobs.

I am pretty sure, if your friend wouldn't have put that sarcasm into the sentence, and would have just simply stated that he/she is not able to solo heal the content, that the other healer would have been more than happy to pick up the slack or help out a little bit more. But saying, dps less and heal or you are aware you need to drop cleric stance to be able to heal right? is maybe not something a lot of people would react on. In fact I can see how that would cause just the opposite and would be ignored by most people, including myself.

It needs 2 healers per party when people don't dodge perfectly. It also does not help when you are expecting to share the healing and dps and all of a sudden you are stressing because people are dying when they shouldn't be due to lack of healing. Only top gear healers do this in dun, I pted with them too. If someone is hit by something they could of dodge, mistake, being new, whatever the case my be, they will not heal them at all and rather them die or let the other healer (me) heal it all.

Also you are not reading, she was only sarcastic after she asked for help and not getting it. The other person said nothing to her the hole time, what do you expect her to do that point?

[Tremara]

I always wonder where people find that amount of toxic groups (doesn't matter if premade or not). I do dungeons/raids a lot with randoms and had seldom a problem with toxic behavior.
Most dungeons/raids start with a "hey" (if at all) and a "gg/bye" at the end.

In my experience maybe 1 out of 20 groups had toxic players and most of the time I find them amusing. If they cross a certain line I would initiate a vote kick or just leave. No one is forced to stay and suffer verbal abuse.

Oh well, maybe I'm just incredibly lucky ...

[aesteval]

It also doesn't need 2 healers.

You must have a vastly different view of DF groups in there than I've seen because I would like nothing better than to be able see someone solo heal the chaos I've been exposed to in Dun Scaith. And while there may be some healers capable of solo healing the content, it doesn't mean that all healers can - especially with how chaotic things can get in a DF group. There's a reason why the devs have the DF set to place 2 healers into each party and not 1 and the devs will have more insight into the community capabilities than any single player. If someone queues as a healer, it's not unusual for other players to expect them to help contribute to healer in place of DPS when the dynamic play state and environment requires it.

[Serilda]

assumption doesn't help either. Ask more questions to clarify.

I was just commenting on the fact that the non-toxic behaviour being described came across as being toxic in itself. None of this was assumption; it was based on the exact words quoted in the post (though some people most certainly aren't reading mine). While I'm no fan of the 'my sub, my rules' people myself, being rude to people playing a video game with almost zero provocation isn't something I enjoy seeing.

Wow, so you are telling me it is best not to say anything and let people die?

No... I'm saying I prefer people to be polite when asking their fellow party members for help instead of shaming them in front of everyone in a juvenile, sarcastic way. If they really weren't getting it, maybe ask everyone to stop for a moment and make a big deal of it in a respectful way - I'm sure the traumatised DPS players don't want to keep dying either. But you expect a lot from strangers who might be new to the encounter (or heck, new to the game - really doesn't take long to grind up to 24-man content if you're desperate but muscle memory and experience takes a lot longer). Everyone is at 50%? That's what AOE heals are for. Maybe they're used to players who enjoy the level of intensity that was making you suffer.

I don't see why it has to be reduced down to either letting everyone die in some apocalyptic scenario or being a jerk to someone - then complaining on the forums that other players are toxic.