[Dev] ilevel to enter a DF is not enough. ALL DF need requrements. 4.0 reminder.

[Shougun]

The sad thing here is: in HW they were handing out HQ-crafted-gear from quests, making is possible for you to gear two (or even three?) classes with that alone. They were making sure EVERYONE would get a decent set of gear by just playing the game (granted, you had to do sidequests, but its pretty obvious that you're supposed to do that anyways - thinking about unlocking flying). So there is NO reason for someone showing up in a dungeon with non-appropriate gear except being lazy/not caring.
So if they continue this - and I would expect that - there wont be a problem with not being able to progress.

Unfortunately I can imagine some people picking gear that has nothing to do with the class they are playing, or want to play, and that causing issues later - so while sort of true not entirely lol. Not suggesting they not make ilvl requirements just that they shouldn't be so tight that if you messed up a little you have to go and gear out entirely before the next baby step.

Asking for reasonable compromise, I'm sure many people here would love to set the min ilvl to something that makes every dungeon a lighting breeze especially as we've already gone past the dungeon the first time now ... I'm just saying don't lean too much towards the vets, or to the new players. Allowing people to come in with whatever they want is of course not reasonable lol.

It probably would just be golden to be able to have the system recommend how to quickly meet the ilvl requirements, like obviously the MSQ (but thats easy for a new player to mess up if they don't have gearing sense, not everyone does) - so point out certain leve quests or NPC shops could be great. "Go buy some gear from Jimbob".

[Vidu]

Unfortunately I can imagine some people picking gear that has nothing to do with the class they are playing, or want to play, and that causing issues later - so while sort of true not entirely lol. Not suggesting they not make ilvl requirements just that they shouldn't be so tight that if you messed up a little you have to go and gear out entirely before the next baby step.

Not wanting to be rude here but: Those people are idiots and would be rightfully locked out of the next dungeon. That is EXCATLY the type of person we want locked out - the kind of person who, despite having a level 60+ character, is still not able to figure out what kind of gear they need or not caring enough to quickly look at the desciption of the gearpieces and see which class they are for.

So, no this isnt an issue - if people pick the wrong gear, its on them and their fault.

[Shougun]

Not wanting to be rude here but: Those people are idiots and would be rightfully locked out of the next dungeon. That is EXCATLY the type of person we want locked out - the kind of person who, despite having a level 60+ character, is still not able to figure out what kind of gear they need or not caring enough to quickly look at the desciption of the gearpieces and see which class they are for.

So, no this isnt an issue - if people pick the wrong gear, its on them and their fault.

Good way to teach people, tell them to gtfo.. lol (that was sarcasm). While I understand your frustration and I'm not suggesting ilvl 10 weapons in ilvl 150 content, I don't think being all Dark Souls here is the way to go. That stuff minimizes the community greatly, although it does quickly divide the good from the bad.

Except for the highest tiers of content, Git Gud Scrub, is not welcomed and would easily (and does) rift communities and making it a mechanic in the game (on normal content) is unwise. Again I'm not suggestion to NOT do this idea, I think it should be done, only that they should help guide and allow moderate variation. I'm for the thread with the caution they shouldn't tighten the band so much that you can't progress without having to do something silly like farm the previous dungeon entirely.

So I'm honestly not sure if my suggestion would even have an affect on your play depending on how SE does it, I was merely making a point that SE should not ram a giant stick up the backside of players who made /small/ mistakes because other players just "don't have time" for you. At least on non-savage/extreme contents, would probably be a good idea to do it to ex/sav content~. There should be requirements though.

[Vidu]

Good way to teach people, tell them to gtfo.. lol (that was sarcasm). While I understand your frustration and I'm not suggesting ilvl 10 weapons in ilvl 150 content, I don't think being all Dark Souls here is the way to go. That stuff minimizes the community greatly, although it does quickly divide the good from the bad.

And basically telling them all the way through "Oh, it doesnt really matter" is a better way to teach them? Maybe I am a little to frustrated and rough, but when the game is offering you free gear already and you cant even be bothered to make sure you pick the correct piece (or, if you screw up, make your way over to an NPC vendor or the market board) I am losing my patience.
My point is: at this level - wether you got there through leveling or with a jump potion at somepoint - you should be expected to KNOW how to gear up. No guide needed anymore. No explantion of basic stuff. No super-duper-fluffly-cuddeling. If you're playing football/soccer in a team they dont explain you the rules and how to kick a ball each time you come into training aswell - and if you cant figure it out at somepoint, you're out.

I know you're not against this idea, but I wanted to point out why your issue isnt an issue. There will always be crafted gear, you get two sets for free while playing anyways - and even if you make a small mistake there are NPV-vendors to get you the gear you actually need. So the problem you pointed out is only a problem for people not giving a fuck and those people dont belong in a teambased game.

[Shougun]

And basically telling them all the way through "Oh, it doesnt really matter" is a better way to teach them? Maybe I am a little to frustrated and rough, but when the game is offering you free gear already and you cant even be bothered to make sure you pick the correct piece (or, if you screw up, make your way over to an NPC vendor or the market board) I am losing my patience.
My point is: at this level - wether you got there through leveling or with a jump potion at somepoint - you should be expected to KNOW how to gear up. No guide needed anymore. No explantion of basic stuff. No super-duper-fluffly-cuddeling. If you're playing football/soccer in a team they dont explain you the rules and how to kick a ball each time you come into training aswell - and if you cant figure it out at somepoint, you're out.

I know you're not against this idea, but I wanted to point out why your issue isnt an issue. There will always be crafted gear, you get two sets for free while playing anyways - and even if you make a small mistake there are NPV-vendors to get you the gear you actually need. So the problem you pointed out is only a problem for people not giving a fuck and those people dont belong in a teambased game.

I asked to allow for small variations due to gaps - or a system that just suggests how to fix those to make the system friendly. I'm in no way saying "Screw everyone do what you want, it doesn't matter what you do". I think you're pulling significantly more from my statements than I've ever intended - maybe due to your own personal experiences where people screwed you over unfairly (I've had it too, it sucks lol).

I think it would be horrible if SE makes the system so tightly bound you can't get in without basically being already overtuned, which was a caution I was stating because I know there are quite a few overzealous people who think if you're not maxing the dungeon you're already not respecting your team - they'd be wrong. Merely stating don't overtune the requirements. The minimum requirements is meant to be there so the content is challenging yet still do able - don't set them so its "brain dead easy" as I fear many would like to force newer players to experience. I've been in groups where someone is foaming at the mouth because someone has legitimate but not optimal gear for a content.. this is where my statement is coming from.

I also specified that ensuring they have solutions outside of the dungeon cycle itself like NPC (which they sort of do) is fine too, so I think you're taking more from my comment then needs be. Perhaps in fear I'm suggesting people come in with crap gear lol, I'm not :P - just a reasonable amount so people can smoothly move from content to content (whether the system helps you find that gear or its just tuned right, the new player pace even if you make small mistakes is still a smooth experience).

Also don't forget as content becomes older and people move through it faster the whole "you're a level 60 thing" means less and less, you'll have to naturally lower your excpectations of what they know and it would become more logical to expect more mistakes as people move faster through content than we did (especially if they add jump potions). Yet again would like to say I'm not suggesting you let new players come in naked lol, just make their experience smooth and understand not everyone gets what's going on.. so our systems should keep an eye on that (not us the players, but SE's systems lol) - our experience being smooth is important too which is why I mentioned just maybe adding little recommendation lists when you don't meet the req. could be a great thing.