Stop Giving the "Need" Command for Drop Gear in Dungeons to Higher Geared Players!

[Laerune]

I agree that someone that needs it for a upgrade should get priority when it comes NEED on a item, but this still does not change the fact that other players are also in the dungeon for their own reason and if they can press NEED on a item, why shouldnt they have the same amount of rights like yourself? We all want to press NEED for a reason:

- For some its to upgrade their gear so they have higher stats/ Ilvl
- For some its to level their desynthesis level
- For some its to hand in the item for GC points which they will spend that they need.
- For some they are doing the dungeons on a certain role so they can farm glamour items.

At the end of the day, we all have our reasons and needs. I do not see how your time and needs are more valued then someone elses. I can understand as someone that had players NEED on gear that were a upgrade for me. So I understand where you are comming from and this is also why I dont NEED when I see someone that needs it for a upgrade, but this is my personal choice. In the end we all spend X amount of time to complete a dungeon and we all have a right when it comes to pressing the NEED button if we are able.

PS: If your suggestion were to be implemented then those that want the item would just either:

- Stop doing those dungeons with randoms (more queue time for certain roles)
- Get lower ilvl gear so they can press NEED (which means the instance will take longer, tanks wont be able to do larger pulls, healers wont be able to dps as much and dps wont be able to deal much more damage.) In the end everyone in the party will be held back by the lower ilvl player.

[Altena]

If anything, my proposal will change a "forced-greed" system into a "forced-need", and I see nothing wrong if it takes good faith to adjust everyone's priorities on a case-by-case basis -still have party chat for that.

As for the newbie's need for gear there is nothing special about it:

Not sure why you bothered quoting my other post because it doesn't help your "point".

I am perfectly fine with a newbie rolling NEED on items for gear and having loot priority.
Just like I will roll NEED on items that are specific to my class - I will play a class that gives me a higher chance of giving me the correct gear that levels my desynths.

If I want seals, I don't need loot priority as any piece of gear will suffice. I am happy to Greed with the rest of my party members.
If I want desynth, I will choose a class that gives me priority over that crafting class.
If I need to upgrade my gear, I will play the class that needs that gear.

The current system is fine. Your "suggestion" is horrible as it only benefits those that don't give a damn what they get.

[Cordie]

Not sure why you bothered quoting my other post because it doesn't help your "point".

I am perfectly fine with a newbie rolling NEED on items for gear and having loot priority.
Just like I will roll NEED on items that are specific to my class

You are (and should be) valuing both cases the same, in which case my suggestion is viable and fair.

The current system is fine. Your "suggestion" is horrible as it only benefits those that don't give a damn what they get.

Current system is quite a bit off.
My suggestion benefits those who need pieces for gearing other classes, glamours, as well as what you mention (seals/desynth) -we could even move desynth into a seperate category according to what you mention.
It's not ok to put the needs of 1 group above 2 (or 3) others.

[Underdog2204]

Current system is quite a bit off.My suggestion benefits those who need pieces for gearing other classes, glamours, as well as what you mention (seals/desynth) -we could even move desynth into a seperate category according to what you mention.
It's not ok to put the needs of 1 group above 2 (or 3) others.

Instead of leveling the class and playing it to get the gear? Then they don't really need it huh....

Lets just face it, you're solution is desinged to punish new players and help get gear for classes they may not ever play instead - Newbie tank - "Ohh I really could do with that new chest... Damn the BRD got it and I got BLM gloves... I don't like magic users so thanks for nothing I guess..."

Instead of you know playing the class and gearing it at the same time >.>

Making the "need" button available to everyone irrespective of job/class/role, as I suggested, does not exclude any job/class/role.

Gear for classes they may play is not magically excluded if everyone can roll "need".

So you want everyone to be holding onto lvl30 gear just incase they may just play it in the future and they cannot guarantee getting it again? Yeah genious suggestion...

Need atm doesn't exclude any job/class/role, you just have to be playing it... Such a hard concept for you to understand...

[Gardthorne]

I am getting sick and tired of finding a piece of gear I need for one of my Job classes and someone with higher lvl gear who clearly doesn't need it anymore goes and hits the "Need" button anyways and snatches it away!

Higher levels geared players should NOT have the ability to do that and needs to be changed where they have to gamble with their luck through the Greed command like everyone else who's Job class doesn't relate to a certain piece of drop gear in a dungeon.

I have a better idea, play the job you want to need on like the game intended you to. You're not entitled to anything when you're playing with strangers.

[Kling-Klang]

Insane suggestion.

[Cordie]

Instead of leveling the class and playing it to get the gear? Then they don't really need it huh....

Making the "need" button available to everyone irrespective of job/class/role, as I suggested, does not exclude any job/class/role.

Lets just face it, you're solution is desinged to punish new players and help get gear for classes they may not ever play instead

Gear for classes they may play is not magically excluded if everyone can roll "need".

[Valenth]

snip

I initially failed to apply nuance the OP and misinterpreted the responses throughout the thread through red-coloured glasses because of it. I was derailing the thread responding to primarilly emotional reasonings I tunnel-visioned on at that time. I think we both have been a bit guilty of this, haven't we? But I'll take the blame for inciting it. Time to move on I guess.

[Altena]

You are (and should be) valuing both cases the same, in which case my suggestion is viable and fair.

I am. But no it does not. It allows specific targetting of loot for players that do need it for specific purposes. Repeating myself again *sigh*.

Want that Tank glamour? Then play tank.
Need that Tank body piece for gear? Then play tank.
Need Armorer desynth? Then play tank.
Need seals? Then play any thing and you can still NEED on items that drop exclusive to you.

Even your own math shows that the chance of obtaining a piece of gear relevant to the class you're playing is fairly evenly matched across the board.

Not sure if you agree here, but a difference of 1-5% chance is pretty insignificant.

Current system is quite a bit off.
My suggestion benefits those who need pieces for gearing other classes, glamours, as well as what you mention (seals/desynth) -we could even move desynth into a seperate category according to what you mention.
It's not ok to put the needs of 1 group above 2 (or 3) others.

You have it backwards. It only benefits people who need to gear other classes, and those who want seals.
Furthermore you could argue that it actually penalizes seal seekers as well - as they no longer have any priority so they have a higher chance of walking out with nothing.
- It flat out penalizes those that need gear for desynth - as it abolishes the ability to target specific gear (such as levelling Armorer desynth on Tank).
- It massively penalizes those that need stuff for glamour - as those that are hunting glamour are targetting a specific piece. Why would you go on anything but the class you want the glamour for if that was your main reason for doing the dungeon.
- Finally, that newbie Tank that is trying to level up their first job? Yeah they can forget about gear..

You are putting words in my mouth....

It's perfectly ok to have a loot priority that allows absolutely everyone to TARGET specific things that they actually really need. Especially when the chance of obtaining said item is practically the same across all roles.
It is NOT ok to specifically expect others to pass on things just because someone else "Needs" it. As everyone "Needs" loot. However removing the ability to target specific things just penalizes nearly everyone involved, and means that more people will end up with stuff they don't need, and not get the stuff that they do.

Making the "need" button available to everyone irrespective of job/class/role, as I suggested, does not exclude any job/class/role.

But it does. Because that Tank can no longer prioritize their Tank gear. Now that tank piece that they had a 100% chance of winning if it dropped, suddenly drops to 25% - and that is 25% of the whatever % chance that the piece dropped in the first place..

I mean with all your math brains I am surprised you haven't figured this one out..

You say there is like a rough 15% chance to see the piece you need.
With everyone able to suddenly NEED on that piece, you drop your odds of obtaining that piece down to less than 5% chance of getting it.
Really scary when you look at it.

Gear for classes they may play is not magically excluded if everyone can roll "need".

If they need gear for a specific class, targeted loot is more beneficial in the current system. There is literally no argument here.

Again I repeat...

That chest piece (or pants) that has what.. 15% chance to drop to begin with, suddenly becomes sub-5% chance to obtain...

Just play the class you so desperately need that gear for. If you're unwilling to play that class, then no - you don't need that specific piece for gear (because you obviously aren't willing to play it), and you can simply roll with the rest of the party already.

[bardaboo]

Cordie: you're just talking in circles. Anyone who needs dungeon gear as an upgrade should go on that job. But you idea punishes those people. If you are running on an i270 and upset about losing out on i245 gear YOU are the problem, not the system. If you don't want to run expert dungeons as a dps to get gear for that class, YOU are the problem, YOUR decision is the problem. If you want aiming gear RUN AS A BARD. pretty simple. If you want fast tank queues AND aimimg gear you are at the mercy of rng and party communication. In the span of one week you can get % 50 of any class gear that is BETTER than i245. In 2 weeks on any class all 250 and higher.
Stop telling us how to optimize what we are doing if all you are doing is running expert as tank and hoping for gear. That is not optimization. Seriously grind alex normal. All 250. And guess what. You can roll need on everything you want. Since you obviously hate rng. And hate having less than a 25% chance at any piece, start a party finder, or run with friends (if you have any)