Is our sub fee not enought

[ApolloGenX]

Why do people keep arguing over if something is "forced"?

This is a game, nothing is forced.

I think the idea is that if you want the "full experience" something might be "required".

That is a sticking point for some people about cash shops, myself included. If the purchase price of software, plus subscription does not include the "full experience", then what does it include... and will that change over time as more is added to the cash shop, reducing the relative value of purchase+sub?

If that is the case, should we expect a reduction in software price and/or sub?

One of the reasons I like a sub game is that it is a fixed cost entertainment model. If I need to go to a variable price to get the same level of entertainment I expected for fixed price, then that means the game is competing with a lot of other variable priced entertainment methods... including simply renting/going to movies, dining out, drinks, etc. (not to mention games with cash shops that do not have subs)

[Alleo]

If they said "you can only eat raid XYZ with this item from our cash shop", sure I could get the argument. People getting all enraged over glamour items and fun stuff being CS only so the company can turn a profit, I just think that's incredibly entitled, spoiled, and first-world.

And why exactly is a raid item in the cash shop much different than emotes, mounts or pets? Why does only the raid point deserve enrage? All of them are content..I dont care for raids for example, lots of people dont care for raids since only a really small amount of people clear it anyway. Yet it costs a lot of money and time to create. (Bosses, equipment and so on) The majority of people in this game are probably casual, care for pets, glamour and other parts and thus it would probably only hit a small amount of people if they would do that. Why are those small numbers of people more entitled to have their raid ingame? They dont need the raid to play this game. Crying about this eventhough the company would earn money from that which would be better for their costs of creating such content and at the same time might leave more time and money to create more content for the majority of the players..well quite spoiled I would say.

See you can turn every argument around. Some people need to understand that glamour is content too..Ex primals are run a lot of times because of the mounts that drop or because you can create some nice items from the drops. Without the glamour and mount as an incentive people would not run these old primals the same way they do with them..so all these glamour items are really important to keep content active. Barely anyone would run Garuda ex if there is nothing behind the first win. All these pets, mounts and glamour could have been put into the game. They could have been used to keep older content alive or even create new content.

Yes nobody is truly forced to buy something, but in this way wouldn't it be completely acceptable if they put every new glamour in there and only get us re-skinned new equipment in the game? Since you dont need glamour to beat a dungeon.

[xbahax92]

You all are arguing about being forced to buy or not to buy. But Im more worried what will come next. Im really annoyed that they consider to put the Umbrella mount into cash shop instead of Goldsaucer (as example). Yes we did get the chair for 750k MGP. And then again we have skins and Fenrir for 1m MGP. Yet we would still profit having more rewards to exchange for. Would make atleast a bit sense to do all those Challenge Logs again and grind MGP.

I dont understand why they dont give both options to either buy or get it ingame. Those who do not want to spend time on grinding or farming, can buy it from the CS. Allow us to grind/farm who do not want to spend more money as we already do on subs, expansion...

[Skivvy]

If they said "you can only eat raid XYZ with this item from our cash shop", sure I could get the argument. People getting all enraged over glamour items and fun stuff being CS only so the company can turn a profit, I just think that's incredibly entitled, spoiled, and first-world.

A good amount of players have had a past experience with WoW and XI. The reason why we may expect our subscription fee to be all-inclusive, is because until very recently, this is the experience that a lot of us have had with a subscription game. I come from XI, started back in 2004 (and I do still play from time to time). They didn't have a cash shop, and your items were all obtained from in game events or patches.

Now let's move on to WoW. The big one! This is what XIV is constantly being compared to. They didn't introduce their cash shop until 2013. 9 years is a lot of time for someone to get used to having their subscription cover all available items.

Now we're in the golden era of DLC. Content creators know that people will happily pay additional money for things that would have (probably) been included in the past. It's quite sad, but hey, can't really fault them for jumping on that band wagon. Companies like to turn a profit. However, when it comes to a subscription game having a cash shop, you're obviously going to run into opposition. Especially when this was not common until only a few years back.

It's new territory for SE and their MMOs, and it should be handled more gingerly than it has been. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the items in WoW's cash shop can be purchased in full for a bit under $400. XIV's cash shop would cost you just under $1,000. We have a huge amount of items in the shop, a fair amount of them exclusive to shop-only, and the prices are obscene. If this was a F2P game, that would be fine. However, this is the cash shop for a game that we already pay monthly for.

The cash shop is not going anywhere, of course, but they could definitely implement a few changes to make it seem like less of a straight cash-grab.

[ApolloGenX]

..and can we at least agree that many of these glamours, pets, mounts, and "non-essentials" will be useful and fun MUCH longer than in game gear with stats?

In many cases, this is the only content that actually has enduring value/usefulness.

[Reynhart]

The story jump potion does exactly what you seem so adamantly against, except SE wants to charge people the cost of an additional expansion for it. How is it magically acceptable only if SE tries to gouge their players?

It's not, I'm against the jump potion. But at least charging it is an incentive to not rely on it.

By the way, just because someone wants to do Stormblood as soon as they hit 60 doesn't mean they wouldn't want to later go back and finish the Heavensward story (the same with ARR).

Sure, but any excuse for wanting to do Stormblood first is a bad excuse. The worst being "New players will want to tackle new content"

Here's a fun fact: You can only "force" somebody to do something by holding them at gunpoint if they "want" to live prior. If they want to die instead, you're not going to have any success with that method, they're happily gonna say:"No, eff you."

Seriously, stop with the "will to live" comparison, that's absurd...

On the dress topic, you're not forced to wear that dress, so any hoop you have to jump through to have it is a deliberate choice from you. Don't expect people to pity you for your choices.

[ErikMynhier]

And why exactly is a raid item in the cash shop much different than emotes, mounts or pets? Why does only the raid point deserve enrage? All of them are content..I dont care for raids for example, lots of people dont care for raids since only a really small amount of people clear it anyway. Yet it costs a lot of money and time to create. (Bosses, equipment and so on) The majority of people in this game are probably casual, care for pets, glamour and other parts and thus it would probably only hit a small amount of people if they would do that. Why are those small numbers of people more entitled to have their raid ingame? They dont need the raid to play this game. Crying about this eventhough the company would earn money from that which would be better for their costs of creating such content and at the same time might leave more time and money to create more content for the majority of the players..well quite spoiled I would say.

See you can turn every argument around. Some people need to understand that glamour is content too..Ex primals are run a lot of times because of the mounts that drop or because you can create some nice items from the drops. Without the glamour and mount as an incentive people would not run these old primals the same way they do with them..so all these glamour items are really important to keep content active. Barely anyone would run Garuda ex if there is nothing behind the first win. All these pets, mounts and glamour could have been put into the game. They could have been used to keep older content alive or even create new content.

Yes nobody is truly forced to buy something, but in this way wouldn't it be completely acceptable if they put every new glamour in there and only get us re-skinned new equipment in the game? Since you dont need glamour to beat a dungeon.

As a glamour gobbling Balmung player, I have to respectfully disagree. You do not need a glam to win the game, it is different. Let me show you how I see it, maybe that will help you understand where I am coming from.

I work in the death trade, mortuaries. Now when you die your body has to be dealt with, that's the law, let's call that the basic sub. So with no frills everyone at the start of things (for their sub) gets the basic of the basic service ok. But some want glamour, for a fancy funeral to impress friends and enemies is their "end game". Now you don't need that, legally we can put anyone in the ground for a flat fee, the same fee. But if you want something.... demand it, should my company not provide it? Or provide it and eat the cost? No, of course not. If you want Saudi desert roses, you bet your tail I'll find some and as any business would, charge accordingly. Is that a cash grab? To provide extra services or extra cost that have been requested by my customers? No, its business, and honestly insane to expect that extra stuff beyond the basic package to be free. It's insane, the signatures I see, the posts, all going on about how SE should make everything free, to put everything in their game and just say f-profit.


Its not a White Knight issue, its a business person's issue. It makes me wonder how many of the people who complain against the CS understand how business work. The /playdead has been requested for years, my history will show at least 6-10 posts asking for it. So as a business I can see the meeting going, "We are between patches, revenue is down a little. Options?" To which someone would say, "Lots of request for /playdead." Someone gets put on the project, takes a few weeks IDK programing, but I do know the lad/lady working on it got paid, has insurance, most likely got overtime in an office with lights, internet, plumbing, all things that are not free (ie, overhead). No that stuff is not already there, someone on a small team is put on something like that its most likely an extra project meaning overtime and resources added like lights on at night to allow for work.

So true we don't know where the money goes in detail but with a little thought it is not hard to sort out that the emote was not free to make. We have to pay extra for extra things. If you want exotic flowers at your funeral you need to pay me extra. If you want an extra ranch sauce from McDonalds you have to pay extra. If you want better seats on your flight you need to pay extra. Extra money for extra stuff, how is this new to anyone?

[Stormrider]

Its not a White Knight issue, its a business person's issue. It makes me wonder how many of the people who complain against the CS understand how business work.

With a certain level of transparency and up front pricing structure. SE is a business and they can price how ever they want. But other types of business have to obey laws and be up front about costs and services. We have definitely not seen that. They are making the rules as they go. Just because you make money doesn't entitle you to do as you please. It seems most defense is it's a business so its ok they can do what ever.

If they came out and said, "We are only going to give you basic services with the odd extra. We plan to regionalise gear and then charge on top. All cash shop will be per character and never per account." You can live with that and people should shut up. But that is not what is happening.

[Reaperking386]

you fail to mention that wow sells their crucial story arcs outside the game, costing you a lot. Older books runs 50.00 average and newer will cost you 20-30 average. they have been doing this since wows release.

[ErikMynhier]

With a certain level of transparency and up front pricing structure. SE is a business and they can price how ever they want. But other types of business have to obey laws and be up front about costs and services. We have definitely not seen that. They are making the rules as they go. Just because you make money doesn't entitle you to do as you please. It seems most defense is it's a business so its ok they can do what ever.

If they came out and said, "We are only going to give you basic services with the odd extra. We plan to regionalise gear and then charge on top. All cash shop will be per character and never per account." You can live with that and people should shut up. But that is not what is happening.

Do you ask for financial transparency from any other business you get extra things from? The example I give with McDonalds, the extra sauce, some McDs will charge for it. Critical thinking can break down, without statements of finance, that we pay extra as it dips into stocks that have to be bought or replenished. Its logical thought.

Now I will meet you halfway on the issues of price. Sometimes the price is to high, and without records we can't know how high is to high. So instead of getting all heated, let's get some people in the community to crunch the numbers, something MMO players are very good at. Let's find the average cost of wages, how many people would likely be needed, other costs. Let's try and break down the cost of FFXIV and see if some are correct about the price or if its an over reaction.

I feel a cash shop is fine, and that it IS the place for extra items with no baring on the game. But instead of this endless nonsense maybe we should take it upon ourselves to find an answer. I would be happy to help in such a project.