Is our sub fee not enought

[Alleo]

If they said "you can only eat raid XYZ with this item from our cash shop", sure I could get the argument. People getting all enraged over glamour items and fun stuff being CS only so the company can turn a profit, I just think that's incredibly entitled, spoiled, and first-world.

And why exactly is a raid item in the cash shop much different than emotes, mounts or pets? Why does only the raid point deserve enrage? All of them are content..I dont care for raids for example, lots of people dont care for raids since only a really small amount of people clear it anyway. Yet it costs a lot of money and time to create. (Bosses, equipment and so on) The majority of people in this game are probably casual, care for pets, glamour and other parts and thus it would probably only hit a small amount of people if they would do that. Why are those small numbers of people more entitled to have their raid ingame? They dont need the raid to play this game. Crying about this eventhough the company would earn money from that which would be better for their costs of creating such content and at the same time might leave more time and money to create more content for the majority of the players..well quite spoiled I would say.

See you can turn every argument around. Some people need to understand that glamour is content too..Ex primals are run a lot of times because of the mounts that drop or because you can create some nice items from the drops. Without the glamour and mount as an incentive people would not run these old primals the same way they do with them..so all these glamour items are really important to keep content active. Barely anyone would run Garuda ex if there is nothing behind the first win. All these pets, mounts and glamour could have been put into the game. They could have been used to keep older content alive or even create new content.

Yes nobody is truly forced to buy something, but in this way wouldn't it be completely acceptable if they put every new glamour in there and only get us re-skinned new equipment in the game? Since you dont need glamour to beat a dungeon.

[ErikMynhier]

And why exactly is a raid item in the cash shop much different than emotes, mounts or pets? Why does only the raid point deserve enrage? All of them are content..I dont care for raids for example, lots of people dont care for raids since only a really small amount of people clear it anyway. Yet it costs a lot of money and time to create. (Bosses, equipment and so on) The majority of people in this game are probably casual, care for pets, glamour and other parts and thus it would probably only hit a small amount of people if they would do that. Why are those small numbers of people more entitled to have their raid ingame? They dont need the raid to play this game. Crying about this eventhough the company would earn money from that which would be better for their costs of creating such content and at the same time might leave more time and money to create more content for the majority of the players..well quite spoiled I would say.

See you can turn every argument around. Some people need to understand that glamour is content too..Ex primals are run a lot of times because of the mounts that drop or because you can create some nice items from the drops. Without the glamour and mount as an incentive people would not run these old primals the same way they do with them..so all these glamour items are really important to keep content active. Barely anyone would run Garuda ex if there is nothing behind the first win. All these pets, mounts and glamour could have been put into the game. They could have been used to keep older content alive or even create new content.

Yes nobody is truly forced to buy something, but in this way wouldn't it be completely acceptable if they put every new glamour in there and only get us re-skinned new equipment in the game? Since you dont need glamour to beat a dungeon.

As a glamour gobbling Balmung player, I have to respectfully disagree. You do not need a glam to win the game, it is different. Let me show you how I see it, maybe that will help you understand where I am coming from.

I work in the death trade, mortuaries. Now when you die your body has to be dealt with, that's the law, let's call that the basic sub. So with no frills everyone at the start of things (for their sub) gets the basic of the basic service ok. But some want glamour, for a fancy funeral to impress friends and enemies is their "end game". Now you don't need that, legally we can put anyone in the ground for a flat fee, the same fee. But if you want something.... demand it, should my company not provide it? Or provide it and eat the cost? No, of course not. If you want Saudi desert roses, you bet your tail I'll find some and as any business would, charge accordingly. Is that a cash grab? To provide extra services or extra cost that have been requested by my customers? No, its business, and honestly insane to expect that extra stuff beyond the basic package to be free. It's insane, the signatures I see, the posts, all going on about how SE should make everything free, to put everything in their game and just say f-profit.


Its not a White Knight issue, its a business person's issue. It makes me wonder how many of the people who complain against the CS understand how business work. The /playdead has been requested for years, my history will show at least 6-10 posts asking for it. So as a business I can see the meeting going, "We are between patches, revenue is down a little. Options?" To which someone would say, "Lots of request for /playdead." Someone gets put on the project, takes a few weeks IDK programing, but I do know the lad/lady working on it got paid, has insurance, most likely got overtime in an office with lights, internet, plumbing, all things that are not free (ie, overhead). No that stuff is not already there, someone on a small team is put on something like that its most likely an extra project meaning overtime and resources added like lights on at night to allow for work.

So true we don't know where the money goes in detail but with a little thought it is not hard to sort out that the emote was not free to make. We have to pay extra for extra things. If you want exotic flowers at your funeral you need to pay me extra. If you want an extra ranch sauce from McDonalds you have to pay extra. If you want better seats on your flight you need to pay extra. Extra money for extra stuff, how is this new to anyone?

[Stormrider]

Its not a White Knight issue, its a business person's issue. It makes me wonder how many of the people who complain against the CS understand how business work.

With a certain level of transparency and up front pricing structure. SE is a business and they can price how ever they want. But other types of business have to obey laws and be up front about costs and services. We have definitely not seen that. They are making the rules as they go. Just because you make money doesn't entitle you to do as you please. It seems most defense is it's a business so its ok they can do what ever.

If they came out and said, "We are only going to give you basic services with the odd extra. We plan to regionalise gear and then charge on top. All cash shop will be per character and never per account." You can live with that and people should shut up. But that is not what is happening.

[ErikMynhier]

With a certain level of transparency and up front pricing structure. SE is a business and they can price how ever they want. But other types of business have to obey laws and be up front about costs and services. We have definitely not seen that. They are making the rules as they go. Just because you make money doesn't entitle you to do as you please. It seems most defense is it's a business so its ok they can do what ever.

If they came out and said, "We are only going to give you basic services with the odd extra. We plan to regionalise gear and then charge on top. All cash shop will be per character and never per account." You can live with that and people should shut up. But that is not what is happening.

Do you ask for financial transparency from any other business you get extra things from? The example I give with McDonalds, the extra sauce, some McDs will charge for it. Critical thinking can break down, without statements of finance, that we pay extra as it dips into stocks that have to be bought or replenished. Its logical thought.

Now I will meet you halfway on the issues of price. Sometimes the price is to high, and without records we can't know how high is to high. So instead of getting all heated, let's get some people in the community to crunch the numbers, something MMO players are very good at. Let's find the average cost of wages, how many people would likely be needed, other costs. Let's try and break down the cost of FFXIV and see if some are correct about the price or if its an over reaction.

I feel a cash shop is fine, and that it IS the place for extra items with no baring on the game. But instead of this endless nonsense maybe we should take it upon ourselves to find an answer. I would be happy to help in such a project.

[Stormrider]

Do you ask for financial transparency from any other business you get extra things from? The example I give with McDonalds, the extra sauce, some McDs will charge for it. Critical thinking can break down, without statements of finance, that we pay extra as it dips into stocks that have to be bought or replenished. Its logical thought.

Sorry maybe I misused the word transparency? All prices are on the sign and any change is well documented and put forward. It also has some sort of logical thought process to it. The sauce may cost a much larger % of the burger then we know. As ingredients prices fluctuate on amount of production. But they can not charge the same price. Big mac Meal is 5.99 extra sauce is 25 cents. But maybe the sauce literally cost 25 cents. Could they charge 60 cents 10% of what the actual meal costs. Also some of the stuff on cash shop has physically been paid for once.

SE prices are randomly and feel like what is the max profit not a percentage of cost. Moogle mount 29.99 USD, to seller on ps4 game 59.99 USD. I don't need any math to see one asset per character compared to a full game.

What I want is 100% upfront pricing structure and what it gives us. If we have a cash shop that is fine. But I want to know monthly sub is X amount of content per year and cash shop is X amount of content per year and will include X content. That is the transparency I want. Also on the topic of upfront. That they don't ever want all players to have the same game experience. Or they would not make certain design decisions.

Not to be mean but you sound like the head office guys who increase prices for production and then complain sales are down but then trot out the amazing gross on sales.

[ErikMynhier]

Not to be mean but you sound like the head office guys who increase prices for production and then complain sales are down but then trot out the amazing gross on sales.

I don't take it as mean, that is the reality of dealing with a business. My goal isn't so much to defend the practice (which personally I don't think is wrong), as much as it is to show how this is the model for this game. And since the game is very successful, we will likely see this model going forward.

The head guy in the office would never increase prices for production, the market increases the price of production. And I complain when sales are down because I have people above me who require I meet a set cost, there for I have to adjust the only budget I have only real control over which is payroll which I don't want to mess with as these people under me need their jobs. So I do role out my amazing gross charts to convince my superiors that we are doing great so I don't have to lay people off, the same people who thing I'm the ass for riding them to increase productivity so I could use those charts to save their jobs. They don't understand and some here don't either, but that's cool because I took not a dime from them, whether they hate me or not doesn't matter. We aren't all wolves of Wall Street.

[Vaer]

Extra money for extra stuff, how is this new to anyone?

The problem most people seem to have is mainly that there is a subscription attached in the first place which seems to be the main point of the thread. If the model was a buy game, no sub, there would be a lot less resistance to a cash shop.

You already have to purchase the game, and on top of that you lose access to everything you already purchased (including cash shop items) if you don't pay the subscription.

I guess in the simplest terms you could say some people think the subscription fee is already paying extra.

[ErikMynhier]

The problem most people seem to have is mainly that there is a subscription attached in the first place which seems to be the main point of the thread. If the model was a buy game, no sub, there would be a lot less resistance to a cash shop.

You already have to purchase the game, and on top of that you lose access to everything you already purchased (including cash shop items) if you don't pay the subscription.

I guess in the simplest terms you could say some people think the subscription fee is already paying extra.

Yes and the game was included in the purchase and the playing and social aspect paid by the sub. Extra things after that should be charged for as they would be in any business model.

[Vaer]

Yes and the game was included in the purchase and the playing and social aspect paid by the sub. Extra things after that should be charged for as they would be in any business model.

Again, they feel with the subscription that they are paying enough and it should cover the extras. This isn't a "Well SE shouldn't be able to make money", no one is getting anything for free in the first place everyone is paying some amount of money.

[Reynhart]

I guess in the simplest terms you could say some people think the subscription fee is already paying extra.

The subscription is already paying all the patches