Is our sub fee not enought

[Stormrider]

what is wrong with that tho, as long as they are providing a good game, let those whom wana buy the extra stuff do it

With this type of game what people consider good is relative. Some people may be disgusted by lack of housing. Some may dislike the fact that crafting gear is the easiest to use in leveling due to rng drops. Emotes or certain visual components might be more important to others. I don't ever glamour leveling gear. But I know some people every new item has to match the set.

[bswpayton]

With this type of game what people consider good is

but to be fair tho I cant think of another game that gives new content even if its a little bit every three months and it seems that alot of players over look this , thats so many updates when other games will give you the base game and then an expansion and your left to fiddle your thumbs until something else comes. This game seems to have a very spoiled player base at least on the forums, its things Id love in the game but Im not gona expect everything just cause I pay 15 well really for me 20 bucks a month. Especially coming here from swtor, that before I left milked you for one chapter a month on their expansion, Im just grateful for what they do give even if I dont use everything in the game.

[Kuroneko_Jutah]

This game seems to have a very spoiled player base at least on the forums, its things Id love in the game but Im not gona expect everything just cause I pay 15 well really for me 20 bucks a month.

As a 10+ year MMO veteran, this is nothing. Almost all MMO official forums have a vocal minority complaining about anything and everything from "this player did that thing and I don't like it" to "stop making items for your cash shop and spend that money on things I want." Few here, if anyone, actually understands how FFXIV's development team is structured, how decisions are made (or even by whom they are made), how their budget works, how much oversight Square-Enix corporate has over the game's operation itself, etc.

Everyone on the forums has a Bachelor's in Business and/or Computer Science and knows how easy it is to make the things they want in the game. /s

[Skivvy]

but to be fair tho I cant think of another game that gives new content even if its a little bit every three months and it seems that alot of players over look this , thats so many updates when other games will give you the base game and then an expansion and your left to fiddle your thumbs until something else comes. This game seems to have a very spoiled player base at least on the forums, its things Id love in the game but Im not gona expect everything just cause I pay 15 well really for me 20 bucks a month. Especially coming here from swtor, that before I left milked you for one chapter a month on their expansion, Im just grateful for what they do give even if I dont use everything in the game.

To bring up everyone's favorite topic, FFXI! For those not aware, this is SE's only other MMO to date. (I can hear the groans!)

But anyway, XI included all* game items in your monthly subscription. You paid your sub, and that was that! So now here comes XIV, which is from the same company, and they've completely done away with their old business model. Now they seem quite content to double-dip their characters whenever they can, constantly raising prices to boot.

You call us spoiled, I call the company greedy. They've done a complete 180 on how they run their MMOs, and that's a shame.




*Because someone always nitpicks this - this is not including expansion packs, fan-fest items, etc.

[Kikoten]

I guess at the very least they didn't lock /songbird behind a paywall, and I don't know about anyone else, but a lot of people on my server seem to love that one more than /playdead or /backflip, not just because /songbird is free and more people have it, but because of the fact that people have been creating EPop bands and singing till the sun went down for about a day and a half now. It's probably one of the best emotes SE has ever made thus far, I think.

[Skivvy]

As a 10+ year MMO veteran, this is nothing. Almost all MMO official forums have a vocal minority complaining about anything and everything from "this player did that thing and I don't like it" to "stop making items for your cash shop and spend that money on things I want." Few here, if anyone, actually understands how FFXIV's development team is structured, how decisions are made (or even by whom they are made), how their budget works, how much oversight Square-Enix corporate has over the game's operation itself, etc.

Everyone on the forums has a Bachelor's in Business and/or Computer Science and knows how easy it is to make the things they want in the game. /s

I am also a 10+ year MMO veteran, and this discussion definitely has a place to exist. Don't simply try and write it off as "the vocal minority" complaining again.

For what it is worth, I am 100% OK with cash shops being in F2P and B2P games as all companies need to have a source of income from somewhere. I've spent my more than fair share in these other games, and I have no regrets.

For XIV, you first have to purchase the game itself (which is fine), then pay a subscription (also OK), and then if you want to collect all items (including exclusives), you can pay even more money at their cash shop (this is where the issue begins).

In my opinion, a cash shop on a subscription game should NEVER contain exclusive items. Give the players a chance to obtain all items in game, at least once, then maybe move those items into the cash shop. There will always be players who started late, or missed an event.

[bswpayton]

To bring up everyone's favorite topic, FFXI! For those not aware, this is SE's only other MMO to date. (I can hear the groans!)

But anyway, XI included all* game items in your monthly subscription. You paid your sub, and that was that! So now here comes XIV, which is from the same company, and they've completely done away with their old business model.

This is a new age and a new market wow is a billion dollar company, league of legions makes so much money its crazy Id never play either of these and I know league isnt an mmo. But my point is , why do you think they put cash shop in to begin with where do you think the jump potions are gona end up, if you look at other mmos they have cash shops. Those other mmos sell gear, already sell jump potions, sell way more mounts, exp boast all kinds of stuff. And swtor even sells gamble boxes and they have subs as well and use the cash shop even more than this game , and Id prob say it profits more than this game does as well. To keep and maintain this game or to make it stay competitive with other games you cant use the same business model from years past.

Mmos are not really growing like they did in years past, you have to do things similar to your competitors and thats what SE is doing, there is hardly anything in the mog station like last time I checked a dress and some dye and now these emotes. Like compared to other places this is nothing , so why are people complaining, if you think that this game is just gona sit idle and not try to capitalize like every other game on the market then you must not no how business works. Ill say it again no subs arent enough subs are never going to be enough in any game period companies will always be looking to make extra money and that goes from burger king, to movie theaters, to here video games, there is no such thing as too much that's called capitalism and its just how things work.


Things come at a price I see your comment above its simply a choice I wanted the hw griffin mount but I wasnt willing to pay for the extra special edition price for that mount. Im not willing to preorder storm blood when I can just buy it on june 20th when its cheaper, the game isnt forcing you to do anything. Unless you buy all the special edition stuff, then some things are just out of ur reach in general. Why is this a problem, you dont have to have everything in the game , nobody said this when you signed up for your sub I know it didnt say that on mine.

[Shougun]

Man, don't get me started on the FFXIV housing file, I have a lot of choice words for it and none of them are positive, sadly >>;...

:3 Hopefully by informing others who don't know they could see much better, and by reminding SE they have a litany of issues with their current system, maybe some time in the future when they're passing it around in a room they'll say "You know what, Houses! Lets do that again!" lol.

I was just putting that link out there since it was mentioned in a few points throughout the OF that people weren't sure if it was quoted that the Cash Shop helped fun the EU data centre. By some rights it wouldn't be a long hard to extend that thought to say that it would be used to create server infrastructure necessary for the storage increase either. With that being said that video was from 2+ years ago and who knows what may or may not have changed in that time frame. We don't have any information about exactly what S-E spends the FFXIV profits on so any opinion we have is just conjuncture and I for one don't see too much to worry about (yet).

I don't really want to get into the the main thread discussion too much - to me I just see a lot of hyperbolic rhetoric and faulty logic being applied with real world examples that make me roll my eyes. I'm personally impartial towards cash shop as it has no positive or negative effect on me though I do have the opinion that I don't feel $7 is not too much for an emote either - my only complaint to that being it should be account wide and not single character. But it is a one time fee so comparing it to a monthly subscription seems kinda silly to me. If you play your character for a year, your $7 effectively translates into $0.58 / month and just keeps getting better from there.

I care more about game balance and job balance in some regards - oh and making an official parser =D *Prepares flame shield*

Ah okay, while I have no doubts the cash shop is valuable to SE both to give Yoshida more power to argue for more money but also for the company as a whole (investors want that sweet money lol) - it's difficult to say what without them telling us what they do with it... So I took the response as a "proof they're using money for inventory" and was like.. well.. maybe not? lol. It is proof they consider the shop helpful however.

IMO, besides that I generally don't like cash shops, SE just needs to tighten their ship and fix their delivery. In a lot of other MMOs that have it together you can't readily lose your purchase as there are commands to get them back (wtf is this lose your $20 wedding bangle thing? lol), stuff is account wide, there are processes to unban your account easily if a bunch of accidental credit card denials happen (like WoW, if your credit card gets silly - in FFXIV you have to hope a thread on reddit explodes, that's not acceptable). "But this MMO lets you throw $100 down without getting anything!" ... -_- yea that's a good system, lets put that everywhere!! lol.

As well for an MMO that likes the cash shop they should consider EQ sort of earn cash shop money via your sub, that'd probably lower tension around it (lower not remove). So say you could buy the moogle mount if you subscribed for 6 months, which would be a very hopefully feature in the defense of unique items in the shop (I'm thinking SE side, "nothing we add cannot be obtained through regular participation in our game~!"). Or consider something more like Wild Star where the last time I looked, nearly every single item in the cash shop can also be obtained by playing and not paying extra (there was an in game cash shop currency or something).

SE could make their cash shop significantly more acceptable if they want, for morale, and perhaps for more income (if you had the choice of getting 4 trees for $12 I bet quite a few more purchases would be made, vs 1 for $5, with the ID tag of LotR added as well). Making it feel less clunky and friendly would shut down forum fights more often and to SE's benefit (as I've seen on other games where the CS isn't so, the forums would usually come to the defense of the company instead against the shop).

Imo, $7 for an emote is too much, it should be like $3 but I think if they had a currency on sub thing more people would not care about the price (within reason, $50 emote? gtfo lol).

A random quip would be that I think their cash shop looks disorganized with a non-AAA tier presentation, a rather pointless issue but yeah haha.

I care more about game balance and job balance in some regards - oh and making an official parser =D *Prepares flame shield*

I agree with an official parser option (NOT CASH SHOP), I'm thinking Mods like WoW, maybe an official mod for PS4 players to easily rely on, but I don't agree that parsers would make people's lives harder like commonly suggested on the forums.

I already see and know people get excluded because of and in the name of (false reference to) parsers, the difference here is they pick silly wording strategies to basically say "I saw your parse, I don't like it, so I'm going to be rude to you". False reference would be like "I want to leave this party, but don't want to get yelled at too much, so I'll say everyone's DPS sucks" and someone else would assume they're running a parser. I don't think there will be more rude players with parsers, just how you get that information will be /better/ with parsers, you'll at least know if they're full of fake kupo nuts or not. Players will be able to see if they're doing poorly and improve, that'll be the biggest change imo - rude players will still be rude regardless. I mean evidence of this issue is the whole meta Paladin / White Mage treatment, even though we don't have a parser the information from parser is already available and will not change if SE trys to ban them harder, the damage from parsers is already done, lets get the bonuses from them already. It's annoying to me to see them delayed/not added because we already suffer their consequence of more informed meta choices, and people using them in the shadows, so all we're doing now is losing out in the benefits (like better discussions on balance on the offical forms, reliable self improvement, better tips to others, knowing when a rude player is just talking crap and doesn't know their own job).

Bah, I've seen much worse =p Just put away that great Katana and keep going forward =p

HAI!!! We will wade into the battlefield together and I will prove my honor! "TASTEAH MAI BLADEE!" .. oh wait, wrong game.. W.e!

[Lexia]

...

Think most the outrage is not that there is a cash shop and they putting stuff in it, it the price they are charging for the items on top of paying a monthly sub. Lot of people seem to be unhappy about a emote costing $7, now if they lowered that price to say $3 for the emote would there still be people that unhappy? Yes but I think a lot less would complain about it and be more ok with. Least that what I feel is going on, that cash shop for what it selling it ok it just priced too high for be a sub game.

[Skivvy]

Things come at a price I see your comment above its simply a choice I wanted the hw griffin mount but I wasnt willing to pay for the extra special edition price for that mount. Im not willing to preorder storm blood when I can just buy it on june 20th when its cheaper, the game isnt forcing you to do anything. Unless you buy all the special edition stuff, then some things are just out of ur reach in general. Why is this a problem, you dont have to have everything in the game , nobody said this when you signed up for your sub I know it didnt say that on mine.

I'm not concerned about CE game/expansion, plushie, OST items. These are marketing/promotional items, and that's a different beast all together. Perhaps I should have clarified further on post #274, because as I mentioned, it always gets nitpicked.

The exclusive items I have an issue with are the ones that go directly to the cash shop. The new emotes, Far Eastern Garb, the mounts, Scion outfits, etc.

Times do change, and cash shops do seem to be creeping in everywhere. I obviously don't think they belong on a sub game, but I'd personally be OK with it in XIV if they would do the following:

1) Have only account items (fantasias, server transfer, name change) and items that have been obtainable in game at least once
2) Have a system to convert gil to Crysta
3) Lower the damn prices. @.@ I play Archeage as well, which is arguably one of the largest money-grabs at the moment, and SE's prices rival that of AA.