/Play Dead

[Naunet]

We have a lot of free stuff in game too. :P

Nothing in this game is free. It is pay-to-play.

[KadaRemnant]

Nothing in this game is free. It is pay-to-play.

I know. I mean that for the price we pay for our sub we are well rewarded in game.

[KadaRemnant]

Could you tell us what we're getting for free? Everytime I stop paying them, they don't let me have anything.

i'm only saying that for the price we pay to play, we are well rewarded and i love everything. Like i said above, there are far worse mmo that don't reward like Square Enix do. I just appreciate they give and sell these awesome emotes. We could get none too .

[Naunet]

i'm only saying that for the price we pay to play, we are well rewarded and i love everything. Like i said above, there are far worse mmo that don't reward like Square Enix do. I just appreciate they give and sell these awesome emotes. We could get none too .

This is silly, but there's no use arguing with you. I'll simply state that I do not agree that SE should 1) be selling basic emotes on the cash shop and 2) that they should be so ridiculously priced. When free-to-play MMOs handle their cash shops better than your pay-to-play MMO, you know there is a problem.

[kuma_aus]

This is silly, but there's no use arguing with you. I'll simply state that I do not agree that SE should 1) be selling basic emotes on the cash shop and 2) that they should be so ridiculously priced. When free-to-play MMOs handle their cash shops better than your pay-to-play MMO, you know there is a problem.

I don't think you really know how F2P MMOs handle cash shops. Normally there are standard basic items you can buy upfront. And then there's super rare cosmetics that you can win in a loot bag that costs like $5. Most people spend $50+ to win the item, some lucky people get it in their first $20 others spend $100 only to get it to drop once. And when you spend $50, $100, $200 or more, you get a bonus outfit for the different points or bonus items.

And to top it all off, all of these are tradeable in game. Normally these super rare costumes are close to the most expensive items in the game. And to make the value of money worth it, the greatest gear in the game can be sold as well. And this repeats every week when a brand new costume is released every now and then or an older super rare costume is re-released.

So to put it in terms of FFXIV. Imagine if the poncho was a super rare item. It is released for a weekend special loot box. During this weekend special, if you spend $50 on the cash shop you get a bonus costume, say a basic non HQ and less detailed Thavarian body. $100 you get basic Minfilia haircut (Premium Minfilia haircut gives you bonus stats when equiped and is in a special loot box that will be released some other weekend). $200 and you get one of the super rare items released during early ARR. Everything in the cash shop is tradeable, so you can sell all the bonus items you get to instantly get rich in game. Also The Creator Savage gear is tradeable so someone with enough gil can purchase a full set and have completely geared up a class. Also in PvP, having better gear helps, there isn't any item level sync.

Now repeat that every week with brand new cosmetic items or older rare ones re-released. Sure it's not P2W, since F2P players can just clear Alexander The Creator Savage themselves to get the gear. But don't forget to even be geared enough to clear Alexander Savage you'll need to spend gil on older gear as well.

[Roda]

[examples of a final fantasy xiv game that doesn't exist]

1. Just because it could be worse, doesn't mean you shouldn't criticise something.
2. There are plenty of non-predatory f2p/b2p mmos that have a basic laying down pose and returning event items as a part of their non-paying experience.

[kuma_aus]

1. Just because it could be worse, doesn't mean you shouldn't criticise something.

When did I say that? Someone said F2P MMO cash shops are better than XIV cash shops and I'm just mentioning how that's so far from the truth. Sure criticize the XIV cash shop if you want to, but making claims like how cash shops in F2P MMOs are handled better than XIV is a huge lie.

2. There are plenty of non-predatory f2p/b2p mmos that have a basic laying down pose and returning event items as a part of their non-paying experience.

Even if those are part of the non-paying experience, what is in their paying experience is far far far worse than anything in XIV.

[Roda]

When did I say that? Someone said F2P MMO cash shops are better than XIV cash shops and I'm just mentioning how that's so far from the truth. Sure criticize the XIV cash shop if you want to, but making claims like how cash shops in F2P MMOs are handled better than XIV is a huge lie.

Then I am confused as to the purpose of your defence of SE's double dipping practices if not to try and shut down criticisms against xiv's cash shop because.....

Even if those are part of the non-paying experience, what is in their paying experience is far far far worse than anything in XIV.

F2P games done right should not have a negative feeling paying experience. I've never felt robbed by a purchase in wildstar, GW2, or warframe, because they are free games that have been handled well. They've all got some kind of integration where free players can access cash shop content if they play the game enough. Don't want to buy madame fey coins in wildstar but want the goodies? Make the plat to buy it off the auction house when people eventually sell them. Don't want to buy black lion keys in GW2? Same deal, buy the skins off the trading post. Want a cool new skin in warframe? Farm up some prime parts or rare mods and trade players for cash shop currency.
The F2P mmo market is no longer the korean p2w grinding wastelands it once was. Naunet's specific f2p experiences are accurate and valid.

This bias against f2p games makes it look like you're setting the bar lower for SE because we don't have lockboxes on our cash shop.
And if you're not, I truly do not understand the point of your hyperbolic attempt to invalidate Naunet's experiences.

[Yukiko]

Beware just FAKE-News, its all a Fake:

Because its so popular, more DLC will come!
It is optional, we will deliver quests and content soon exclusive for mogstation.
(please look forward to it...)
We do this to personalize the players experience and that those who begin later can skip or choose their gaming speed on their own.

[kuma_aus]

F2P games done right should not have a negative feeling paying experience. I've never felt robbed by a purchase in wildstar, GW2, or warframe, because they are free games that have been handled well. They've all got some kind of integration where free players can access cash shop content if they play the game enough. Don't want to buy madame fey coins in wildstar but want the goodies? Make the plat to buy it off the auction house when people eventually sell them. Don't want to buy black lion keys in GW2? Same deal, buy the skins off the trading post. Want a cool new skin in warframe? Farm up some prime parts or rare mods and trade players for cash shop currency.
The F2P mmo market is no longer the korean p2w grinding wastelands it once was. Naunet's specific f2p experiences are accurate and valid.

This bias against f2p games makes it look like you're setting the bar lower for SE because we don't have lockboxes on our cash shop.
And if you're not, I truly do not understand the point of your hyperbolic attempt to invalidate Naunet's experiences.

So if XIV was like that, you would spend gil to get cash shop items?

Let me ask you, what else can you buy with the in game currency in these games? Most F2P MMOs I've played, the very best gear you can get can be sold. So in terms of XIV, upgraded Scripture and Alexander Savage gear would be able to be sold.

Also you never talked about the points I brought up which was how cash shop is implemented. You only talked about how F2P people can get cash shop items. As a cash shop spender, is XIV or the F2P MMOs better or worse?

The point I'm discussing is

free-to-play MMOs handle their cash shops better than your pay-to-play MMO, you know there is a problem.

How easy is it to get the rare items released on the cash shop in these F2P MMOs? How much money do you need to spend to get them? Also how often do new cash shop items come out? Is it viable for someone in these F2P MMOs to get every single cosmetic/exclusive cash shop items without selling their soul to the game and grinding for gold 24/7? Can someone in these F2P MMOs just spend $1000 on the game and have BIS in a weekend?