Naoki Yoshida's Comment in Regard to Jump Potions/Boost Potions

[SDaemon]

The jump is to 60 not 50. And it grants you the gear needed to begin the latest expansion so in this case you would get 270 gear for the start.

HW didn't start at 130 (the highest ilvl obtainable in ARR) but rather 110, I believe, could have been 115. 270 gear is going to last a fair bit into the leveling process but it isn't going to be what SB starts off with while leveling.

amd 300000 or more gil/job.

So essentially the same amount of gil a player leveling to 50 doing only the MSQ would obtain...sounds fairly reasonable.

[Zojha]

Nope, that will be pay to win.

But it cannot be, because the advantage you gain is also only temporary - just as when you buy levels. And you said buying time isn't pay to win. Therefore, it cannot be. You are contradicting yourself.

Directly after the purchase, you will be ahead of someone who didn't do the purchase. One person is level 1, the other 60. Or one person has an i230 weapon, the other a 250 weapon. Over time, this advantage evens out - the first person will get level 60 as well, the second person will get an i250 weapon as well. And then both can go and do the remaining upgrade to level 70/i270 - or whatever numbers you wanna pick. Gear gets outdated far faster than character levels are.

It logically has to be the same because item levels and regular levels are ultimately identical (and adequately both named levels) - progression of stats. One is tied to the character, the other to the items. Thus, if a temporary advantage in one is okay, therefore a temporary advantage in the other has to be okay as well. Claiming anything else is a double standard.

That aside, "Pay to Win" implies there is something to "Win". But what can you win with better stats exactly? PvP is synced, PotD rankings, Lord of Verminion, Triple Triad, Housing Plots/Apartments and Chocobo Racing all gear independent. There is no competitive content in this game where gear would matter. So there is no "Win" possible, therefore "Pay to Win" is not possible. With the same reasoning, you can defend a level skip as not "Pay to Win", because leveling is not competitive, therefore you cannot "win" against others at it. But again, either both are or neither is, because both are the exact same thing - progression of stats, the level gets higher and your stats get higher in turn. That is simply a fact. You can ignore or deny it at your leisure, that's your prerogative, not mine. I'm just pointing it out.

[bswpayton]

Just to pull a particular point I want to comment on...

Not really this is untrue all Wt means is let me unsync this, or let me put up a group in pf to actually exclude any new player from doing it with me because I dont have time for that Wt is self serving. It does nothing to help new players do anything , but watch a few speed runs and turn hard content into trash.

[szalkerous]

So essentially the same amount of gil a player leveling to 50 doing only the MSQ would obtain...sounds fairly reasonable.

Without the work to earn it. Surprise! Some folks like the achievement and pride of working to accomplish goals. Handing over something that took you hours of time, patience, and effort for ~ a $20 bill is kinda BS.

Not really this is untrue all Wt means is let me unsync this, or let me put up a group in pf to actually exclude any new player from doing it with me because I dont have time for that Wt is self serving. It does nothing to help new players do anything , but watch a few speed runs and turn hard content into trash.

Not everyone runs WT with ilvl set to 250+. I've done a lot of PF groups that welcomed first timers, mount farmers, and WT. And you ignored all the other examples.

[Felis]

The jump is to 60 not 50. And it grants you the gear needed to begin the latest expansion so in this case you would get 270 gear for the start.

Sorry, but the minimum ilevel for lv61 will be not 270.
For HW the minimum ilevel was ilevel 115 (reward from the first quests and buyable from the Ishgard ventors) and not ilevel 130. So for Stormblood I can imagine a minimum ilevel of 250

[SDaemon]

Without the work to earn it. Surprise! Some folks like the achievement and pride of working to accomplish goals. Handing over something that took you hours of time, patience, and effort for ~ a $20 bill is kinda BS.

If you consider the MSQ "work"

[Yeol]

But it cannot be, because the advantage you gain is also only temporary - just as when you buy levels. And you said buying time isn't pay to win. Therefore, it cannot be. You are contradicting yourself.

Okay, look here.

buying a weapon/gear that's stronger than what currently is available would only buy you the time until equal or better gear comes out.

This word is what I disagree with. By stronger you did not mean i230 or i250. It is stronger than ANY current gear in game. This is why I said it will be pay to win.
But everything else you said I agree with.

It is pay to win if the gear is better than gear of the current patch. It is not pay to win if the gear is already outdated the moment it go into the cash shop (lower than what the newest expert dungeons will give you).

Couldn't have said it better.

[ADVSS]

If you consider the MSQ "work"

it must be because its ok to pay for not having to do it

[SDaemon]

it must be because its ok to pay for not having to do it

That doesn't make it work hahaha

[Felis]

Or is it? Considering that gear in vertical progression regularly gets outdated, buying a weapon/gear that's stronger than what currently is available would only buy you the time until equal or better gear comes out. And according to people, buying time isn't pay to win. So this naturally couldn't be pay to win either.

It is pay to win if the gear is better than gear of the current patch. It is not pay to win if the gear is already outdated the moment it go into the cash shop (lower than what the newest expert dungeons will give you).