Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

[RemVye]

Sorry for answering a question with a question, but what does it matter? If there isn't a reason for people to do it, then they won't. Either way, it doesn't affect you whether they do or not. That's my point. I don't care what hair color you choose because it doesn't affect gameplay. You shouldn't care why people wear what they want to wear if it doesn't affect gameplay. Which brings me to this:



If having certain classes equipping gear meant for other classes is breaking the balance, then don't balance for it. Remove all the stats for all I care - it's not the issue. No one should be complaining that their GLA gear doesn't do anything for them stat-wise while they're on THM.



Two things contribute to this confusion: the fact that it was a new system and the fact that it wasn't obvious what anything meant - particularly the difference between "favors" and "suits". It doesn't mean the system can't be adjusted to make more sense while not being restrictive.

For example, let's toss out "favors", and just go with "suits". You get the benefits of gear when it "suits" your class; you don't when it doesn't. For every level the gear is above you, the stats are lowered by some percentage - let's say 20, that way 5 levels above you, it's completely useless, regardless of what class you are.

I think there's probably an even more elegant and balanced solution, but I think this works as a simple example.



Not to be a jerk, but just how far beyond those do we need to go? Again, if it doesn't affect gameplay, what justifications do you require for thinking it's a good idea to let people do what they want to do?

My brain is getting foggy, I think I see what you're saying.

Though I think it would affect gameplay at some point. If there were no restrictions, I know some people would just wear Gladiator gear on all classes, even if it gave no benefit at all. Just to have the look of the armor or what have you.

If they took away all restrictions then I would have to start filtering my parties to make sure people have "the right gear". This is at least cut down somewhat with the current system. You can still wear things below your rank, and trust me a lot of people do that (Partying with level 42 gladiator the other day wearing all level 25 gear. LOL needless to say, we got another tanker).

I'm all for freedom of choice, but I think destroying the balance of gear would further fuel people to say "I don't get it, when I wear this gear with a sword its great, but if I pick up a piece of wood (wand) I get no benefits at all?".

I guess what I'm trying to say is that they had to draw the line somewhere, and the required system seems to be the norm for MMO's. It works, it's easier to balance. You only lose the ability to make your character look a certain way.

I'm just trying to understand the argument... is that right, you just want to look a certain way? lol... still confused a bit

[AamesxDavid]

Though I think it would affect gameplay at some point. If there were no restrictions, I know some people would just wear Gladiator gear on all classes, even if it gave no benefit at all. Just to have the look of the armor or what have you.

Sure, it's possible that some people would, though I think it would be a pretty small minority.

If they took away all restrictions then I would have to start filtering my parties to make sure people have "the right gear".

This is the "I don't want to see dumb people" argument, and while I hear that concern (when it comes to parties), restrictions just hide the fact that they don't understand the needs of their class. That is, any GLA who would wear mage gear in a party is probably not going to benefit your party, even if you dress them up like a GLA. And as you say:

You can still wear things below your rank, and trust me a lot of people do that

It's possible that people do this because they can't afford/find newer gear, but to your more pertinent point about wearing gear of other classes, you can do this with the old gear. So how often have you seen a GLA in THM gear? When people are primarily concerned with aesthetics, they're usually not partying. If they are, do what you do with the people who wear level 25 gear as a level 42.

I'm all for freedom of choice, but I think destroying the balance of gear would further fuel people to say "I don't get it, when I wear this gear with a sword its great, but if I pick up a piece of wood (wand) I get no benefits at all?".

I can't prove wrong your speculation, of course, but I disagree. I think if someone sees that a piece of gear "suits" only GLA, and they get no benefit from it as a THM, it will be rather clear.

I'm just trying to understand the argument... is that right, you just want to look a certain way? lol... still confused a bit

If it's easier for you to have a real reason, then fine, go with that. But once again, my real argument is that it simply doesn't matter why you'd do it. There's no gameplay reason for a level 50 to equip level 1 gear, but they are free to do it.

[RemVye]

Sure, it's possible that some people would, though I think it would be a pretty small minority.



This is the "I don't want to see dumb people" argument, and while I hear that concern (when it comes to parties), restrictions just hide the fact that they don't understand the needs of their class. That is, any GLA who would wear mage gear in a party is probably not going to benefit your party, even if you dress them up like a GLA. And as you say:



It's possible that people do this because they can't afford/find newer gear, but to your more pertinent point about wearing gear of other classes, you can do this with the old gear. So how often have you seen a GLA in THM gear? When people are primarily concerned with aesthetics, they're usually not partying. If they are, do what you do with the people who wear level 25 gear as a level 42.



I can't prove wrong your speculation, of course, but I disagree. I think if someone sees that a piece of gear "suits" only GLA, and they get no benefit from it as a THM, it will be rather clear.



If it's easier for you to have a real reason, then fine, go with that. But once again, my real argument is that it simply doesn't matter why you'd do it. There's no gameplay reason for a level 50 to equip level 1 gear, but they are free to do it.

Yeah I hear you... I guess as long as it doesn't affect me it shouldn't matter. If they made it so all gear gave zero stats, including defense and bonus stats, then I would be fine with that. But I still think that will just open the can of worms for people to argue for the items to have stats even if it doesn't favor their class.

And probably mostly a balance thing as well. It might be too strong to have every great piece of +attack or +str gear on the same class (just an example). Zero'ing out the stats would prevent this, but I still think I prefer having required geared.

I understand your argument and respect your position. Thanks for explaining.

[AamesxDavid]

But I still think that will just open the can of worms for people to argue for the items to have stats even if it doesn't favor their class.

Yeah, there probably would be a good amount of that.. but I think it's hard to say right now. Most of the (real) issues with the optimal system seem to stem from the confusion over whether a piece of gear works better than another - and it's a totally legitimate complaint, because it is confusing, and it does affect gameplay. With that cleared up, I think it'll make any complaints about what isn't favored far less legitimate, and I'll be the one "Like"ing the posts saying "stop complaining".

Anyway, thanks for being one of the few who actually seem to listen.