My issues with PvP

[Khalithar]

It is easy for non-healers to forget that playing a healer role in pvp gives you as such an extremely large responsibility to carry, while at the same time there are not many more things in this game more grueling than having to defend your team against a group of competent dps and tanks who are out to murder you. I heavily recommend you to try healing in pvp for yourself. Directly nerfing healing output in a way that you proposed would mean that the balance regarding "rewards vs. effort" of playing a healer in ffxiv pvp would risk being destroyed. It's currently a high effort/high reward thing.

Oh I'm perfectly aware of all these points and everything you pointed out in your post. However, I'd still be willing to see healing gutted in PVP entirely and just deal with the burst damage. I do absolutely get the power of healers in PVP and that without them it would be a zerging slugfest where everyone dies quickly. My point being, I would prefer that outcome far more than what we have right now.

[Cer_Elys]

Oh I'm perfectly aware of all these points and everything you pointed out in your post. However, I'd still be willing to see healing gutted in PVP entirely and just deal with the burst damage. I do absolutely get the power of healers in PVP and that without them it would be a zerging slugfest where everyone dies quickly. My point being, I would prefer that outcome far more than what we have right now.

And I respect that opinion. I do not feel it is a good idea for a game developer to make 1/3rd of their trinity useless in pvp though. And since it would be so very controversial, it is very unlikely a decision like that would ever be made.

That being said, it's not like SE doesn't acknowledge how much influence a healer can hold, either. Culling Time and the medal vulnerability stacks in Feast are fair tools to try and avoid healer deadlocks. You might very well see later pvp modes go even further with mechanics that buff dps/nerf heals. Probably the most realistic additions SE could make regarding this.

[Khalithar]

That being said, it's not like SE doesn't acknowledge how much influence a healer can hold, either. Culling Time and the medal vulnerability stacks in Feast are fair tools to try and avoid healer deadlocks. You might very well see later pvp modes go even further with mechanics that buff dps/nerf heals. Probably the most realistic additions SE could make regarding this.

At this point I could honestly settle for Culling Time applying a 25% healing debuff per stack and a similar stack mechanic apply to the medal vulnerability, not 25% per stack for the medals, but 5-10% per medal stack at the minimum.

[Ama_Hamada]

Um.. healers do not need "nerfing" DPS burst does.

SCH needs buffing, adding CC tools, etc

If you are going to complain about healers, in the current game, any change to make them weaker is making them useless, since we are borderline useless as is. Nerf Burst to the ground, boost damage over time, then lets see how much healers effect things.

Healers is not the problem, knowing how to DPS and CC is the issue. You need to change balance completely so no one is useless if you are trying to propose changes because a large group of people are unskilled and want to cater to that.

I point you back to this:

This and sch healing is too weak in pvp, not too strong. Stop trying to kill healers that know what they are doing and focus more on DPS that have no defenses, like SMN, BLM, BRD, MCH..... , more so when one of those 4 overextend. Ever see how quick a BLM can go down that is not paying attention? My friends got yelled by one once. That person ended up being hated by the whole party since one of my friends explained to the BLM people where running back when that BLM stood there, being a target. Everyone was running back and the person furthest out was that BLM. I saw the video as well, you are not going to find a healer to react heal that, esp with people scattered while my friends try to figure out the most likely burst target. They went from full to half hp in one hit basically, then split seconds later, dead, any cast time heal would of not hit them off reaction.

If you can't kill someone in PvP because of healers it has to do with the following:
Lack of CC on the healer
Lack of knowledge of the burst rotation in PvP
Lack of coordination of 2+ people while ^ that is an issue
The healer is skilled and knows how to precure and predict bursts in PvP

today a mch and war (maybe a 3rd I was not sure) made a decent attempt on trying to burst me down. When I was binded and I heard that all too familiar sound of it being from a MCH, I knew what was coming next. I was ready for it, I was ready to use dissipation if needed. They gave up after I Attunement on them and backed up far enough for them to stop chasing me since I lived though the burst. Should a second MCH bursted on me on top of that I would not of lived due to being useless after healing like that as a SCH.

PvP has balance issues but healing as a whole is not one of them, also my healing potency is about 1/2 what is is in the real world, nice try on that claim.

You cannot react heal a good burst, you need to see it coming and precast/have abilities ready and know when to use those.

[Culfinrandir]

Mhm...no. That would have people screaming to have Holy nerfed. You know it's true.

True, but Holy has already been nerfed more than it needed to be. If they nerf it any more it'll just be a Miasma2 replica. XD

[Enlial]

True, but Holy has already been nerfed more than it needed to be. If they nerf it any more it'll just be a Miasma2 replica. XD

Miasma2 is actually pretty good o.o Its an instant cast pbaoe heal debuff, even though the damage is minuscule (though its still damage and has at least some limited use; a sch can hold a flag in seal rock better than other healers).

I do like the forced cleric's stance idea (I think I actually suggested something like that too awhile back xD). It's not that I think healers are too strong, its that I feel like there's too much dependency on them. And not to say that it doesn't work, or isn't "fine", the way it is. Just that I imagine it'd be more enjoyable on an individual level if healers had their role blended more into support dps, the same way tanks have been (out of necessity, since its obviously quite hard to hold hate in pvp). Right now what we have is like this lopsided holy trinity xP

It'd be a pretty massive deviation from the current game dynamic and would require a lot of adjustments, so yeah, kinda hard to imagine it actually happening.

[Khalithar]

Snip

You really didn't have to quote your entire post, but I'll say what I said to the other person before. Some of us would be more than happy to see healing completely removed and just leaving damage as is. Going by what you've said about burst, that sounds infinitely more fun than the tedious stalemates I see all the time caused by healing. Sure burst is crazy, I've seen it myself. I'd rather just have that with none of the healing.

[KusoWat]

Go do custom matches with no healer.

So happy most of the PvP community successfully avoided these stalemates.

[Zojha]

Go do custom matches with no healer.

Why bother when you can just get your PvP fix in a different game that's actually designed for PvP? (And have much better queues to boot)

It's what I do when I want to actually have fun PvPing. In this game, I only come to snatch a few rewards at this point and let people have fun with their queues otherwise. Forum PvP is kinda addicting, though - shame facts got nerfed, now ad hominem and ex contradictione quodlibet are meta >.>

[Ama_Hamada]

You really didn't have to quote your entire post, but I'll say what I said to the other person before. Some of us would be more than happy to see healing completely removed and just leaving damage as is. Going by what you've said about burst, that sounds infinitely more fun than the tedious stalemates I see all the time caused by healing. Sure burst is crazy, I've seen it myself. I'd rather just have that with none of the healing.

gogo brd only pvp

I quoted my post for a reason, so you try to read it over and think about what I am saying, since so far you are clearly not doing so.

Healing is not the issue with PvP, DPS is, burst needs nerfing, sustainable damage needs to be increased, SCH needs more utility.

Yes PvP is broken, balance wise, but is not general healing.