A system revamp can not change Tanks or Healers so why do people keeping sayin it

[Sylve]

As long as SE models everything on all 3 tanks and all 3 healers being almost identical in capability when in party content, then we won't see any revamp, and people will gravitate to the tank and healer that raid groups prefer.

From a design standpoint, all 3 tanks are fully capable of doing all the content. The issue comes from players perception as the "easiest/best" tank for what they're trying to do.

Take Savage A1, Faust DPS checks from back at launch. People refused to take Paladins for their lower DPS, almost always taking WAR or DRK to beat the enrage timer.
This wasn't a design issue, This was a gear issue. People were trying to clear a raid that they were barely meeting the absolute minimum requirements to clear. So those players figured out how to make up that shortfall, and that way was to only take the more DPS heavy Tanks and Healers.
Nothing mechanically wrong with the Paladin, nor any design flaw in the raid. Just players attempting to rush through content as fast as they possibly can, instead of stepping back and gearing up a little more.

The same can be seen in 4 mans, people preferring DRK/WAR or SCH/WH because they provide more DPS and thus a slightly faster run.
Its all about players wanting to push through absolutely everything at the highest possible speed by any means necessary.

[Kosmos992k]

The same can be seen in 4 mans, people preferring DRK/WAR or SCH/WH because they provide more DPS and thus a slightly faster run.
Its all about players wanting to push through absolutely everything at the highest possible speed by any means necessary.

This is one thing I just do not understand, why anyone playing a game would want to get it over with as quickly as possible like it was nasty medicine. Oh well.

I understand the point about balance, but I look at it this way if PLD was significantly stronger on defense and resistance, the lack of DPS from the tank could be made up for by healers who don't have to nurse the tank as much.

The problem is though that by balancing things as they have, they homogenize the roles, and that actually leads to disatisfied players. I know balancing is a complex thing to accomplish, but to be honest, if balance leads to homogenization, then SE should go back and find another way to balance that doesn't.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This is one thing I just do not understand, why anyone playing a game would want to get it over with as quickly as possible like it was nasty medicine. Oh well.

Because their fun and enjoyment comes from clearing content. Savage is all about endlessly wiping until you figure out how to push passed mechanics or squeeze out the needed DPS. It's exhausting since you will likely be spending 10-50 hours on just one fight. Gordias was practically grueling due to its tuning. So it's not surprising higher DPS became so focused. Granted, PLD was awful that tier because nearly everything was magic based and no cooldown resets meant Hallowed Ground was still waiting to this day.

I fundamentally disagree with the notion that making tanks and healers braindead-easy quasi-DPS is somehow appealing to the broader playerbase here. Appealing to the people who compulsively level every job regardless of personal enjoyment or intention of playing the job at cap? Sure. But appealing to people interested in those roles overall? Absolutely not, or else this wouldn't be such an outspoken conversation topic whenever job balance is mentioned.

I know mentioning WoW is pretty anathema around here, but somehow Blizzard manages to let their tanks tank and their healers heal while not shoving people out of the casual bracket of play. Wildstar is the same way. TERA is probably the only game I've played where I think tanks and healers are definitely weeded out relative to skill, but that might be because of the added challenge of action combat more than anything else. I mean, in Final Fantasy XIV itself, even pretty mediocre healers are still able to DPS in expert roulette, and tanks will MT entire Dun Scaiths without once putting on tank stance after their initial aggro lead. This is ALREADY pointing to both roles being far too easy even AT lower-skill levels of play. I don't think the cokmunity will shrink back in collective fear if the bar is raised for those roles a bit.

Couldn't agree more. Having jumped into playing White Mage likely for fun. I find it increasingly amusing (in a bad way) how little I actually need to help my co-healer. I usually just end up bursting and pop out of Cleric depending how the other healer is handling content. If it's a light party, I'll be in Cleric more often than I won't. That isn't to say I want healers to never deal damage. It's fun to have those occasional moments of Holy spamming insanity, but it's reached a point where that's more common than actually healing.