Zurvan, Soar, and the Community!

[Accelerating]

Standing in one pre-assigned place for 5 seconds is not the same level of difficulty as doing a correct lvl 60 rotation.
Also, even if all the dps do perfect dmg, if the tank doesn't keep aggro well or whatever, you end up with dead people who deal no dmg and will end up having to do soar anyways.
Relying on dps only is NEVER a failsafe strategy, it's the "let's rush and hope nothing goes wrong because we are f*cked otherwise" strategy.
If everyone knows how to do mechanics AND the dps is great, everything is fine.
If everyone only knows how to deal dmg, if anything goes wrong, it's a wipe.
If everyone only knows how to deal with mechanics, even if the dps is not enough, it's still not a wipe because slowly killing it is still killing it.

Sure, but those player who understand and play their class properly have no trouble dealing with mechanics like soar. Also if you can't skip soar in a farm party with 6 dps then something is really going wrong.

[Enyalios]

You can't skip soar, you can only skip the FIRST soar.

People still need to know how to do it.

Yeah, that's not true. Kill it under like 6 mins and you'll not see soar at all

[Neophyte]

1. Soar skip with proper gear in't hard. Don't farm an extreme fight with ajob you can't play on a high level.

2. If you go single tank -> soar skip. No ifs or buts. The whole point of not going with 2 tanks is to skip soar.
Sticking to a one tank group without skip doesn't make sense.

[CookieMonsta]

Yeah, that's not true. Kill it under like 6 mins and you'll not see soar at all

The whole killing it before 6 minutes is monumentally harder than skipping first soar. Skipping the first one requires a brain and a knowledge of how to opener. Skipping the 2nd one actually requires solid mechanics, good uptime and knowledge of how to maintain decent DPS over a long period of time while doing the above. This is the reason why its stupid to go full ham on skipping first soar then wiping to the 2nd one.

[Alkimi]

1. Soar skip with proper gear in't hard. Don't farm an extreme fight with ajob you can't play on a high level.

2. If you go single tank -> soar skip. No ifs or buts. The whole point of not going with 2 tanks is to skip soar.
Sticking to a one tank group without skip doesn't make sense.

But sadly not skipping soar is half the time not really the fault of the dps. It's the PLD sat there in shield oath with minimal damage going out and the 2 healers doing zero dps.

[Brian_]

Here is the answer --

To skip soar, with the currently available gear even if you don't do Savage, all you need to do, especially if we're talking about solo-tank / solo-healer comps, is do a proper opener followed by you standard rotation.

That's all.

If you can't skip soar, it's a sign that you don't know your opener and don't know your rotation. For any player, that is really the ground-level basics of your job in EX content.

It's an EX-trial not EX-roulette. You should know your opener and rotation. Period.



To the other point about farm players not knowing about the first soar and demon claw, I'll just use my situation to explain.

I cleared Zurvan EX first day in maybe half an hour with my static. We farmed it ~20 times with a few sub-ins. We skipped soar every single time.

Later that week, while helping people clear, I encountered the first soar. I was a bit surprised and confused because that was the first time I'd seen it. Yea, I adjusted fine since I already knew how the mechanic worked but it was still a bit disorienting.

Recently, while bird farming, I was doing Zurvan in RF duty complete and not only did we see the first soar, but also the first demon claw because of how bad the DPS was. While I knew about the first soar, I had no idea that you could see demon claw there. Thankfully, the positioning of the boss was still recoverable.

Sometimes I watch weekly Savage clear streams on twitch and it feels like I'm watching entirely different fights. I see people doing the later phases of A9S that my static skipped week 1. I see people doing the later phases of A10S that my static skipped week 1. Their A11S mechanic rotation is something I haven't seen for ~4 months.

So that's how very good players can not know about certain mechanics. They aren't used to playing with bad players.

The top-tier of the raiding community is pretty insular. They rely mostly on friends, friends of friends, LSes, and sometimes their FC to fill groups for content and ensure a basic level of competency. You are not going to encounter that many top-tier players in random PFs or RFs.

[Texa]

tethers really do seem to be more of an issue than soar in my experience and its largely because people don't want to adjust their play for them. i've seen many a zurvan farm wipe because black mages didn't want to move when they had the tank tether. if you won't move when its crucial for you to do so because you want to push your dps then you really need to run the fight on something else.

[Jim_Berry]

This is not true. They must have seen it while training because they didn't know how to manage their CDs & do their positions for the fight yet.

I've been to farm parties where they never skip the first Soar, yet we still farmed him.
People who complain about Soar are ones who did not train to do the mechanic or refuse to learn it.

If you are going to jump into a farm party you should know how to handle every single mechanic.

Which goes back to one of the reasons I asked my question, because those who have it on farm say they NEVER seen Soar in no shape or form, but get upset when the first Soar appears. This person, who "never seen Soar", seem to die to the first one when it's NOT the X-Shape.

[Jim_Berry]

tethers really do seem to be more of an issue than soar in my experience and its largely because people don't want to adjust their play for them. i've seen many a zurvan farm wipe because black mages didn't want to move when they had the tank tether. if you won't move when its crucial for you to do so because you want to push your dps then you really need to run the fight on something else.

Not defending them, but I just want to ask: Can you blame them for it, when the group is putting so much focus on players pushing dps?

It went from wanting to skip Soar to overall clearing the entire fight quickly.

[Jim_Berry]

*SNIP*

I like your points. I would like to note that statics almost ALWAYS do better in content Week 1 than those without a static and need to pug.