Why is Pld a meme

[shao32]

snip

yeah sorry mess it a bit in that part, my point is ("we'd like to push only the other jobs up there") is not what yoshi say as brian try to defend when he say the WAR dont go to get a nerf, with the complete answer of yoshi explain they want to balance the jobs with buffs but at the same time with nerfs, the whole answer of the interview is pretty clear.

[ADVSS]

Wait, it does? lol, never knew.

no no it doesnt, but the scholars fairy skill fey illumination does enhance its potency a bit.


soer of hard to match up with warrior, not that its impossible, but things like warriors self healing is only boosted by things like berserk and maim, whilst the other 2 tanks dont really get such rewards for stacking attack buffs.

[Shurrikhan]

Wait, [FoF affects Clemency]? lol, never knew.

No, though I certainly wouldn't mind that buff.

Convalescence and Fey Illumination will though.

[Claire_Pendragon]

yeah sorry mess it a bit in that part, my point is ("we'd like to push only the other jobs up there") is not what yoshi say as brian try to defend when he say the WAR dont go to get a nerf, with the complete answer of yoshi explain they want to balance the jobs with buffs but at the same time with nerfs, the whole answer of the interview is pretty clear.

While Im too lazy to look for it, an even older interview did say that Yoshida thinks the average player wouldnt like a nerf to their job, so they feel its better to buff the opposing jobs instead if possible. (I think it was the WAR buff from 2.0)
mainly due to nerfs made in 1.x series, and how people reacted.

[ADVSS]

While Im too lazy to look for it, an even older interview did say that Yoshida thinks the average player wouldnt like a nerf to their job, so they feel its better to buff the opposing jobs instead if possible. (I think it was the WAR buff from 2.0)
mainly due to nerfs made in 1.x series, and how people reacted.

yeah....Then the vit changes happened, i guess could be arguably some weird form of balancing, but i saw it as a nerf to bring warrior down to...i guess shorten the gap..

[Brian_]

yeah sorry mess it a bit in that part, my point is ("we'd like to push only the other jobs up there") is not what yoshi say as brian try to defend when he say the WAR dont go to get a nerf, with the complete answer of yoshi explain they want to balance the jobs with buffs but at the same time with nerfs, the whole answer of the interview is pretty clear.

No. He's pretty crystal clear that they'd prefer to buff jobs but it's not as simple as just buffing the other jobs to have the same strength.

And yea, it isn't that simple. You can't just give AST/WHM the same utility SCH has or a fairy. You can't just give DRK/PLD Storm's Path or Equilibrium.

So like he implied, they're going to have to find other ways of making the other jobs more desirable.

yeah....Then the vit changes happened, i guess could be arguably some weird form of balancing, but i saw it as a nerf to bring warrior down to...i guess shorten the gap..

It was a nerf if you were a blind, DPS obsessed fake tank.

All three tanks got their DPS nerfed in exchange for a gigantic buff in HP. Damage scaled up to compensate but it was no where near proportional to the HP boost we got.

Seriously, I remember the days when we were running A3S and A4S with 15~18k HP and tanking was a tight-rope act.

I remember the topics here about it during the early weeks of Midas. People saying "well, they buffed our HP but I feel tank stance is still needed because the damage scaled up." Oh boy... were they wrong. Was it a nerf to the tanks wearing full slaying right-sides with 100% DPS stance up-time in Gordias? Yes. But that was a tiny, tiny portion of tanks with great healers enabling their DPS obsession. For everyone else, it was a buff.

[Claire_Pendragon]

yeah....Then the vit changes happened, i guess could be arguably some weird form of balancing, but i saw it as a nerf to bring warrior down to...i guess shorten the gap..

not 3.2, i mean 2.0, when people stopped bringing WARs to Coils, because they could solo tank stuff with cheeze strategies. (One of which is using hallowed ground)
So they gave WAR an invulnerability, dmg mitigation, and drastically lowered their self heals.

WAR self healing was much harder to work with, but was always tested by the staff, to make sure it was possible to survive content through self healing.
But a lesser geared PLD could do the content sooner, and could work with pug healers, w/o the need to communicate when a WAR would self heal.
But that alone only made the devs consider "maybe" changing WAR, but they felt it wasnt a big enough deal, some players like the extra challenge.

But once players found ways to do content, that WAR couldnt (through hallow grounding through stuff) they said they now had to buff WAR to match PLD.
They felt PLD was too overpowered, since its mitigation was % based on the boss dmg, rather than the PLD base stats (liek foresight is)
but with the nerfs to jobs in the past, like ARCs doing less dmg in 1.x, and people not taking it well, they feel it would discourage people less, if they just buff WAR up, rather than nerf PLD mitigation CDs. (honestly, they should have, dmg taken -% mitigation is broken as heck, and actually creates a lot of issues for balance that hinders future tank ideas a LOT.)

[Ultimatecalibur]

but with the nerfs to jobs in the past, like ARCs doing less dmg in 1.x, and people not taking it well, they feel it would discourage people less, if they just buff WAR up, rather than nerf PLD mitigation CDs. (honestly, they should have, dmg taken -% mitigation is broken as heck, and actually creates a lot of issues for balance that hinders future tank ideas a LOT.)

That is wrong. -% damage taken is the most balanced form of mitigation. Self heals, Regeneration and RNG Dodge mitigation are the broken ones.

Self-heals and Regens have a problem known as an Immortality Curve. If the amount of damage incoming is less than the amount of damage recovered then the target is effectively immortal. If the damage incoming is greater then the target will die exponentially faster as the damage increases. This is the problem suffered by the Warrior in 2.0.

Dodge tanking has the immortal if lucky/dead is unlucky RNG problem.

[ADVSS]

It was a nerf if you were a blind, DPS obsessed fake tank.

I mean if you ignore self healing power, and natural enmity generation because of the nature of how enmity is calculated, sure it wasnt a nerf.

[Claire_Pendragon]

That is wrong. -% damage taken is the most balanced form of mitigation. Self heals, Regeneration and RNG Dodge mitigation are the broken ones.

Self-heals and Regens have a problem known as an Immortality Curve. If the amount of damage incoming is less than the amount of damage recovered then the target is effectively immortal. If the damage incoming is greater then the target will die exponentially faster as the damage increases. This is the problem suffered by the Warrior in 2.0.

Dodge tanking has the immortal if lucky/dead is unlucky RNG problem.

-X% is broken in that it scales with the enemies damage.

In short, a PLD in LESS than starting gear, undergeared, would take a LOT less dmg, than a WAR w/o -X% in the same gear, as they only have their gears HP and defense to survive with.

I think what you mean is, its the EASIEST to balance, not that its the BEST way to balance.

If all bosses damage was based on the tanks max HP, and defense/magic defense stat, it could be designed to do the same dmg, while mitigating the same amount of dmg, except not being possible while undergeared.
You should only raise anything by a % if its YOUR stats, not the enemies stats.
Foresight is an example of how it SHOULD have been done. (It technically should have been MUCH higher though)

Also, you dont self heal as a tank to out do all the damage taken, you self heal, to lower how much the healers have to heal.
A good system would be a mix of raising max HP before a tank buster, and then healing back enough HP, that you dont die to an auto attack after the tank buster. (and hopefully dont waste the healers CD, who probably over healed u, not expecting the tank to self heal. which is where the REAL issue comes from, with self healing tanks)

also im not suggesting parry/block be the only alternative either, as i consider those weak "filler" CDs between tank busters, or when you used up your good CDs before the TB, then to use them as a last resort. (Except Sheltron, which is a pretty great way to use parry/block for tank busters)

One of FFXIVs biggest problems, is giving "thematic" abilities to all jobs and all of the same role the same stuff, which prevents more unique builds based on the themes.