Mentor Players Kicking newer players from Duty Ques for low DPS

[Vidu]

Players that choose to be mentors are taking on the extra responsibility of playing teacher. If you are queuing for mentor roulette, you should already have the mindset that there's a greater possibility that the run will run longer, mistakes will be made, etc. If it takes the entire run to explain rotations, gear, mechanics, and so forth, then so be it. That is the whole purpose for the mentors being there. As long as players are taking advice and actively show they are trying, then really there should be no issues. I don't understand when people who choose to be mentors act as though it is such a burden. It's what you signed up for.

Can we also remember this is a game, please. There's no reason to be so critical. If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong.

Since this was a recent dungeon, its most likely that they didnt got it for their mentor-roulette though. I do agree that a mentor should try and help new people and I'm trying my best to do that. There are point where I draw the line though - not having the proper gear for your job at level 60 is one of them.
When you've reached level 60 you must have played this game for over 100 hours or so, right? You went through 60 levels and an aweful lot of dungeons - at this point you should really be expected to know the most commong basics of the game. One being which gear to use and one which crossclass-skills are required - thats nothing someone need to tell you patiently in a level 60 dungeon. Thats something I'll explain to you in Haukke Manor, not in Sohm Al HM.

And yes, it is a game - but does that mean you have to tolerate any behavior? For me its not fun having someone in a run who clearly doesnt care about other people. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I dont mind spending 5, 10 or 30 minutes longer in a duty if needed - as long as everyone is making an effort and doing/trying their best. Part of that is to take care of your gear and skills before hand. Not doing that is utterly unrespectful - and this argument can actually be twisted around aswell: If you're not having enough fun playing this game to gear up your character, why play at all? Gear-progress is a major part of the game, so if you're not having fun with that...

[Dement]

Players that choose to be mentors are taking on the extra responsibility of playing teacher. If you are queuing for mentor roulette, you should already have the mindset that there's a greater possibility that the run will run longer, mistakes will be made, etc. If it takes the entire run to explain rotations, gear, mechanics, and so forth, then so be it. That is the whole purpose for the mentors being there. As long as players are taking advice and actively show they are trying, then really there should be no issues. I don't understand when people who choose to be mentors act as though it is such a burden. It's what you signed up for.

Can we also remember this is a game, please. There's no reason to be so critical. If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong.

There's a slight wrinkle in that this was a MSQ dungeon with 4 players. If one was a mentor and one was the OP (new) that still leaves 50% of the party which did not sign up for having the run take a lot longer than it should.

[Vidu]

Stuff

I put "law" in quotation-marks since I couldnt think of a better word for it (sorry, not a native speaker) - what I meant by that is: The game only lets you get into those dungeons with a certain ilvl, thats the "law" or "rule" here.

Well, OP only has his bard at level 60, so its afe to assume they were playing that class, right? No one had to look up their gear on the lodestone either, because they pointed that out themself.

And I like how you're bringing the "whole picture" into play here - we dont have that, thats true. And when I say "we", this includes you. We've only heared from OP here and how they felt misstreated and believe its not okay being kicked because they didnt meet certain standards. Seeing how they reacted in this thread and defend themself for cheating their way into the duty (yes, goddamit, wearing gear thats not supposed to be for your class and doesnt give you any useful stats, is cheating your way in) and using this "I'm new" as a pretty lame excuse at level 60, we can only guess they werent excatly nice and considerate within the duty either - but I'll give you that we dont know that, since we CANT look at the whole picture.

And let me raise you this: Being able to take care of your gear and your crossclass skills is some pretty basic skill, that you should bring to the table. Choosing the correct gear for your job is an important softskill too and seeing how someone didnt bother with that just shows to me how much (=not at all) they cared about their fellow teammates they would get paired up with.
Its not about how long the run will take or how skilled a player actually is - or at least not only about that. Its also about what message you're sending out by the way you present yourself. And wearing the wrong gear or not bothering to get important skills (may it be crossclass or even jobskills!) and bringing arguments to the table like "Its my sub, not yours!" is sending out a message like "I dont care about anyone but myself and my fun!" - not a good attitude in a game that requires teamwork, is it?

See, if the OP would have been like "Yeah, I know my gear isnt great, but I didnt had much time to play recently and really want to progress with the story, so it would be nice if you could bare with me! " I'm pretty sure it would have been less of an issue - but instead they dont learn from their mistakes and even come hear to throw a tantrum and play the victim? No, not cool.

[Mirateski]

I've noticed that I (a mentor in theory, but I don't wear the crown or do the roulette, I mostly just unlocked it because I met the requirements) have far more success in giving people advice when compared with my partner, who does wear the crown, or did while she was actually doing mentor roulette anyway. People are apparently more willing to listen to rotation tips or whatever from someone who ISN'T (ostensibly) a mentor.

Also, unless everyone else in the party was a mentor, they were only one of the people who kicked. There needs to be at least one other person agreeing for it to go through in a 4-man dungeon.

I once saw someone in midas floor 1, on the trash before the boss. They were a bard and had 14k hp, which is on the low side, but more than enough to clear the dungeon. Nobody was gonna kick them from Ratfinx of all things for low hp.

But.

They wiped five times on the trash. The party as a whole, no matter what the rest of them did, couldn't beat the Fausts fast enough, and Hummel came in with max stacks each time. The reason? The new bard refused to use WAnderer's Minuet.

It was brought up. The excuse? "I don't like it." It was pointed out the extra damage was needed to clear damage. "I don't want to use it, I shouldn't have to."

The run was abandoned, rather than the player in question being kicked. But honestly, people will put up with a lot of shit in dungeons. I see low hp and I go "ah, guess this is gonna take an extra five minutes, but hey, I get a second chance point!" Honestly, in sohr khai I'd big pull the first time anyway, hp is never an indication of skill, if we wiped I'd just split it up.

But let's be serious here. You need to wait five minutes before initiating a kick. There is, at MOST, like what, four pulls before boss one? Two, and that's being generous to the two trash mobs before the first door at minimum. How many times did the party wipe, or how friggin' long did it take to get just up to the first boss for them to not have reached it before initiating a kick?

Sure, it's shitty to kick someone for not dpsing enough. I'll never just kick someone because their damage is low. But if the response to "use enochian, it increases your damage", "you really need to use WM/GB because your best skills are locked behind it", "blood of the dragon is important at 60" or whatever is either "I play how I want to, stop impeding me having fun" or just flat out dismissal ("I'm watching Netflix." I've literally heard that as a reason.) I will absolutely initiate a kick to see if the party agrees that your lazy ass needs to get out of my dungeon and use their toolkit to the best of your ability.

(and ftr, a blm doing fire1 until oom, transposing, and then blizzarding until transpose is back off cooldown? Not good enough for 60 content. Sorry.)

[Underdog2204]

I just see it as if you don't wanna be kicked for low dps wear the appropriate gear and do decent dps... Really no other way around it.

People seem to conflate "mentor" with meaning "carry lazy people"... Urm how about no?

[SundayTrash]

First, I can understand if the op was kick but twice in a row, op must been doing something wrong, and it might not even be the mentor that kicked u, it might been initiated by other party member.
Second, If op only have 2-3 a day to play this is more than thats is more play time than most casual and is enough to fully gear up with lore gear in 2 days by doing arf or hunts.
Third, op made no mention of their rotation, all I heard was how much their heavy shot does, which makes me they wouldn't keeping ss up, and not using flaming arrow or quick nock and rain of death when there are 3+ targets together.

[Nixxe]

People are not gonna like what I'm about to say....

First I wanna say I personally would never kick a dps for poor damage...but if they did do that maybe it would do you good to look up some info on your level 60 job. There are a plethora of helpful job guides out there just using google or even the dps section of this forum, I have used them myself & they make a huge difference. And always make sure to upgrade your weapon first as it will have the largest impact on your damage. And as a dps remember damage is your most important responsibly in group content.

I really don't wanna say this because I know it's a touchy subject & a lot of people are gonna get on me but would it be okay if you had a tank that didn't hold hate & got everyone killed, or a healer that didn't heal & got everyone killed? Just because a person chooses to play dps doesn't excuse them of their responsibilities. You can't just use the "I'm new" excuse forever. And in some instances, there are dps checks, where low dps will wipe the group. You did Sohr, so you're actually close to one of those instances now against a certain dragon...


Anyway that mentor was still in the wrong. They're supposed to mentor aka help. Not whine & kick the new people they're supposed to help. Sigh...

There's a pretty big difference between kicking someone after a few pulls on the same boss because they're such a detriment to the group that you will not be able to succeed with them in your party and kicking people who are a slight inconvenience or maybe just need an extra pull to get things down, especially if they're new to the dungeon or especially to the game. Especially in low level dungeons, they are tuned very loosely so that virtually any group will succeed, though it's possible a wipe may occur if someone really screws up. In such instances, patience with newer players to allow them to practice and gentle encouragement are probably much more helpful in the long run than kicking them for slightly inconveniencing the group, though I know it may be hard for many people to realize that because they'll never see the direct payoff of such an investment, though they still benefit from it, whether they realize it or not.

[Underdog2204]

Snip

Or they might just carry on as they are... You cannot determine the outcome with any degree of certainty.

A vote kick could well be the thing to kick them into gear to get better... I wanna know how you are so certain that the outcome you state is the only correct one. I know if I got kicked for poor performance I'd go off and figure out what I'm doing wrong.

But considering how low the general performance is of random people we can come across I'd say a slap round the head is exactly what some people need. Got a tank give me hugs the other day for "not being a bad MCH"... I was flattered but it's telling how people really seem to enjoy themselves more when everyone pulls their weight.

[Nixxe]

Or they might just carry on as they are... You cannot determine the outcome with any degree of certainty like you are.

A vote kick could well be the thing to kick them into gear to get better... I wanna know how you are so certain that the outcome you state is the only correct one. I know if I got kicked for poor performance I'd go off and figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I'm not guaranteeing anything on an individual level and it would be foolish to interpret my post as such. I am talking about the cultivation of a friendly and forgiving environment where people aren't afraid to ask for help or worried that the smallest mistake will get them kicked. The opposite of such an environment exists in WoW's random content, and I've seen its effects. It leads to people who are unwilling to say if they don't know something and unwilling to take or ask for even the smallest bit of advice because it all comes off as criticism when scathing remarks are handed out like candy on Halloween, which leads to a generally poorer random experience for everyone, even the people who are not directly targeted by such things.

[Underdog2204]

Snip

Whilst I agree with your sentiment group content with random people is not the place to ask for help on the basics... At lvl 60 anyway.

Questions on how to do things on bosses etc I've never seen anyone have a problem with, the only problems I come across are when people do not know the basics of their job. So questions are good and I doubt many people are gonna get kicked for asking one, but expecting random people going through the basics (mentor or not) is being entitled (not that I'm saying that's your stance).

Strangers are under no obligations to help anyone.