Mentor Players Kicking newer players from Duty Ques for low DPS

[Vidu]

2) Going into DF with any expectation is pretty dumb and if you want to control what you get, go in preformed

Expecting someone in a level 60 dungeon to wear gear thats appropriate for that content (ilvl150 is NOT - even if the average ilvl might come close to whats needed) and have important crossclass is "dumb"?
I'd rather say: Going in with that kind of gear and without your crossclasskills and expect everyone to be totally fine with that is dumb.

To me it doesnt matter if a run takes 5 minutes longer - if I can see that the person in question is trying their best. Not giving a f*ck about your gear and skills is pretty damn unrespectful towards your fellow players - or shows that you lack the knowledge about the game (as in: knowing what kind of gear is for your job?). And no, at level 60 in a 3.3 dungeon you're not getting of as "Hey, I'm new!"

Honestly, people like the OP are the reason we're having ilvls in place at all - so people have to gear up and ensure that dungeons can be completed - and that in an acceptable time.

(I got a tank in DV recently, his best right-side-piece was a level39-NQ-earring, his HP were only slightly above mine, as a monk. We engage with the first group and tell you what: The healer, being somewhat new themself couldnt keep them up - no surprise, with basically missing about 3k HP. As friendly as possible, I tell the tank that he REALLY has to upgrade those accessories and he admits that he was being to "cheap" to buy some actual ones. So... what do we do? We abonden the run before we even reached the first boss. Just no chance - BUT he was totally able to queue up for the dungeon even though his gear wasnt okay for it)

[LunaFaye]

Expecting someone in a level 60 dungeon to wear gear thats appropriate for that content (ilvl150 is NOT - even if the average ilvl might come close to whats needed) and

Honestly, people like the OP are the reason we're having ilvls in place at all - so people have to gear up and ensure that dungeons can be completed - and that in an acceptable time.)

If the player is able to enter the dungeon via duty finder in the ilvl 150 gear (based on your example), that means he/she is wearing the proper gear, otherwise that person would be unable to enter the dungeon.

While we do have ilvl's in place, some dungeons do not have ilvl's, and it's not up to the player base to decide if someone meets the ilvl requirements, if there aren't any requirements to begin with. However, I do love your interpretation of simple phrasings. Let me point out what I mean, you are saying that specific ilvls are in place to prevent under geared players from joining specific duties and that's correct, but I didn't see the phrasing or terms that state, that these kind of dungeons need to be completed in an acceptable time.

Now I am asking myself, what is acceptable, if we are going by the game itself, every dungeon has a timer and as long as you successfully finish the dungeon in that time, it's marked as completed/finished. If you go over that time frame you're kicked out of the dungeon by default and the duty will be marked as incomplete.

If we are going by your definition of acceptable that's something I talked about earlier, your own mindset, and that's something you should be looking at. Just because you think, for whatever reason, that as an example the dungeon needs to be completed under 10 minutes, doesn't mean that the system agree's with you. That's your own play style but not something that's actual in place.

[Vidu]

If the player is able to enter the dungeon via duty finder in the ilvl 150 gear (based on your example), that means he/she is wearing the proper gear, otherwise that person would be unable to enter the dungeon.

You're making it VERY easy for yourself and everyone else to excuse a playstyle thats simply "bad", by only looking at the ilvl.Sadly thats the only gate thats in place for such duties and calculating it is quite a problem - as explained earlier in this thread accessories count as much as any piece, while they can actually be totally useless for said class, making it basically as if that slot was empty. Tank-jewls do nothing for a bard in a normal dungeon; even secondary stats might be worthless (parry, speed). Looking at that: while the system might have let them pass, they cheated the system and didnt gera up properly. If they get kicked for that because other people do not accept that, thats a legit difference in playstyle - 3 people prefer to play the game with a fourth person who actually put in the tiny bit of effort to get gear for their job. The crafting/gathering gear is now locked to those classes because people were running duties in it, to spiritbond the gear.

So yeah, we're getting more and more gates just to prevent people from being lazy and selfish about their gear - and you REALLY want to defend the stance that someone doesnt has to gear what gear they're using aslong as they're hitting the ilvl? You're sure about that? Because sticking to close to the "law" of the game might mean we need a better law - or in other words: Even more and better gates and more specific requirements or locked items.
Maybe thats actually a good idea, to keep people out of dungeons if they cant even bother to slap some proper gear on - because No, tank-accessories and ilvl150-gear arent appropiate for a dungeon that requires you to have an ilvl of 200. And I dont get how you can even defend that and say its okay, when wrong accessories basically mean empty slots and ilvl150-gear that someone didnt care about upgrading since 3.0

But: Do we really need SE to babysit us so much? To prevent us from using any gear that isnt meant for our job/class because some people dont give a s*it about pulling their weight and just about what they want for themself - and others actually believing that thats okay, but removing them from a duty isnt?

[LunaFaye]

You're making it VERY easy for yourself and everyone else to excuse a playstyle thats simply "bad", by only looking at the ilvl.Sadly thats the only gate thats in place for such duties and calculating it is quite a problem

I don't know if you have noticed but let me point that out. I am not the one that pointed out the ilvl or based my argument on that. I commented on a post that was made by you, regarding the interpretations of simple in game measurements/requirements.

There's also no law in the game or any online game. Law has nothing to do with the absurd ideas some people might have or come up with. I called it a play style and mindset because that's what it is. What I am defending or not defending is irrelevant, the point is still the same and pointing out flaws in comments that are made prior.

You as many others are riding the "let me look you up on lodestone and comment on your "shitty" gear" train, that has absolutely nothing to do with it, or at least not directly, because someone can have an opinion based off an experience, that doesn't even slightly include the lodestone.

The OP stated he was wearing ilvl 202 gear that day, doesn't mention what class he was playing, the team composition, blue/green/pink gear etc. and yet if you're looking at the comments, people excusing the "kick" hungry mentality by a other player based on the OP's current gear, that we don't even certainly know he/she was wearing.

I like to argue, that given these kind of circumstances and out lash the topic received that the player might have changed his/her gear, so people would actually look at the problem. Even if that's not the case, the OP mentioned he/she was kicked due to low dps. While we now can argue that because he/she wasn't wearing the "proper" gear, that this was the result of the dps loss, let me tell you that it might or might not be the reason.

Regardless what the reasoning behind the kick might of been, I was and still pointing out, that a huge part of the community doesn't look at the whole picture. Instead, taking the smallest piece of the puzzle and basing their arguments and opinion on that, excusing any wrong doing or misinterpretations others might have in game. It's wrong, and it shouldn't continue like that, it's that simple.

Sadly to say, if you're looking at my posts made throughout this topic, I have argued and based my opinion on more than just gear. I didn't mentioned the gear since this wasn't one of my priorities. Your post on the other hand started with gear, went over to ilvl, skills all the way down to the "respect" level.... You see the difference?

[Vidu]

Stuff

I put "law" in quotation-marks since I couldnt think of a better word for it (sorry, not a native speaker) - what I meant by that is: The game only lets you get into those dungeons with a certain ilvl, thats the "law" or "rule" here.

Well, OP only has his bard at level 60, so its afe to assume they were playing that class, right? No one had to look up their gear on the lodestone either, because they pointed that out themself.

And I like how you're bringing the "whole picture" into play here - we dont have that, thats true. And when I say "we", this includes you. We've only heared from OP here and how they felt misstreated and believe its not okay being kicked because they didnt meet certain standards. Seeing how they reacted in this thread and defend themself for cheating their way into the duty (yes, goddamit, wearing gear thats not supposed to be for your class and doesnt give you any useful stats, is cheating your way in) and using this "I'm new" as a pretty lame excuse at level 60, we can only guess they werent excatly nice and considerate within the duty either - but I'll give you that we dont know that, since we CANT look at the whole picture.

And let me raise you this: Being able to take care of your gear and your crossclass skills is some pretty basic skill, that you should bring to the table. Choosing the correct gear for your job is an important softskill too and seeing how someone didnt bother with that just shows to me how much (=not at all) they cared about their fellow teammates they would get paired up with.
Its not about how long the run will take or how skilled a player actually is - or at least not only about that. Its also about what message you're sending out by the way you present yourself. And wearing the wrong gear or not bothering to get important skills (may it be crossclass or even jobskills!) and bringing arguments to the table like "Its my sub, not yours!" is sending out a message like "I dont care about anyone but myself and my fun!" - not a good attitude in a game that requires teamwork, is it?

See, if the OP would have been like "Yeah, I know my gear isnt great, but I didnt had much time to play recently and really want to progress with the story, so it would be nice if you could bare with me! " I'm pretty sure it would have been less of an issue - but instead they dont learn from their mistakes and even come hear to throw a tantrum and play the victim? No, not cool.

[Dement]

If the player is able to enter the dungeon via duty finder in the ilvl 150 gear (based on your example), that means he/she is wearing the proper gear, otherwise that person would be unable to enter the dungeon.

That's not even remotely true. If your tank or healer showed up in a mishmash of 150-250 gear and full DEX accessories but barely squeaked by the ilvl requirement because of those DEX accs... there's a very good chance that the dungeon wouldn't even be clearable but they'd certainly be able to enter.

Min ilvl is the bare minimum that SE thinks you should have to have a reasonable chance of clearing a dungeon. We're not talking about being over geared for speed runs, we're talking about the very bare minimum which the OP stated they exceeded by 2 ilvls so they were at the bare minimum already. Now add in that they were using VIT accessories as a BRD which is basically the same as NOT wearing any gear in those slots and they absolutely did not meet the bare minimum. Would you accept someone who showed up in a level 60 dungeon without a neckpiece, earrings and missing 1 ring? Because using accessories which don't have your stats on them is only very very slightly better.

To the OP: this was bound to happen eventually. At some point you need to slow down and work on getting yourself geared up to an acceptable gear level for even the MSQ... it ended up happening in Sohr Khai but there is at least 1 other trial and 2 other dungeons after it with an even higher ilvl requirement which you would have had to meet. Now is the time to get proper gear for the final push.

Also, as a curiosity, how did you know it was the mentor who initiated the vote kick? From the sound of your tale the mentor may have expressed displeasure in the slow DPS but it's just as likely that the other two party members initiated and executed the vote kick after you had admitted it was likely you.