Mentor Players Kicking newer players from Duty Ques for low DPS

[Azper]

I'm not sure what's with the sudden rise in mentor witch hunt threads, but here we are again...

As usual, we only have one side to the story. This might just be me reaching, but what if the mentor did in fact offer advice in picking up helpful/necessary cross-class skills, but the OP had the same knee-jerk response as in this thread. After all, it does take at least two people to vote yes for the kick to go through, so at least one other person agreed with OPs dismissal for whatever reason.

[SDaemon]

but the OP had the same knee-jerk response as in this thread.

To be fair the advice posted throughout the thread, while helpful and she should surely take it, has been mixed with attitudes that should really be avoided when offering advice. Reading through the thread I can see why the OP got defensive.

[Crysten]

Hey guys, instead of encouraging people to play their classes properly in endgame dungeons, let's give them the free ride, encourage them to continue sucking and that will definitely improve the community!

Fantastic idea.

[Clethoria]

I'm not sure what's with the sudden rise in mentor witch hunt threads, but here we are again...

Given the sales during Christmas/New Years maybe those players have hit mentor status and it's reflecting in game. Also, the game's T for Teen, so to add onto that, people are likely seeing emotionally strung children parading around with a crown instead of level headed adults that players could be expecting. Just speculation

[Ralts]

Was the healer the mentor? If so, that dude should've helped with the damage if damage is low lol, or atleast the tank should've changed to dps stance(after getting enough enmity) if healer's slacking

[MeridaQ]

Fantastic idea.

lol so you ignore completely my comment about helping and improving the community and if you read through my previous posts about offering advice and rewrite your own snide comment. So obviously you don't understand how this game works. Let me explain, if you get into a dungeon and the persons gear isn't what you want it to be you can't change their gear to something better that they don't have. Two if they don't have the right cc skills you can't have them magically have them. What I do is offer them advice, you might want this skill x, you can get this gear x by doing x, to increase dps try using these skills during packs and these on bosses.

So from your response to my comment my guess is you (because we are all assuming here) would see someone without optimal gear and tell them they are crap and should be booted for the carry. From your lack of understanding of how the game works I would ask who is carrying who?

[LunaFaye]

Most of the time it's these mentors or players in general, that lack the dps, but are very quick with pointing fingers towards other or under geared players. It's easier to say, well that person over there doesn't do enough dps because he/she is new and look at the gear, let's just kick that person.

While I normally don't kick people based on their dps, if I see that they are actually trying, weighing in their gear and not something I found on fflogs (ilvl 270), I'll take a closer look at what's happening throughout the dungeon.

Sure some people can not be bothered to go that extra mile, however if I want to kick someone (based on dps) I first off need to see what the actual problem is. I can't just go by a number and play the "standard/average" card, especially in dungeons that are for leveling or the first dungeons to unlock old expert.

With that mentioned, again before people jump at me, I won't kick a person based on their dps, except raids or someone just standing around (falls more under the afk category). If I see that person in question lacks the usage of their gcd's I will point it out but being polite about it. If someone doesn't have certain cross skills (new trend that started last summer), I will mention that as well. It's up to the player to decide if he/she takes the advice or plain out refuses.

I then go on with the dungeon run that we have started, and put some more effort in it on my side. Sure it isn't ideal but there's so many factors that could play a role here. Maybe that person wasn't feeling good today, maybe it's a new player, maybe it's the gear or that person isn't comfortable with the mechanics yet etc.

Now I do understand that others like to argue with the fact that these players should have watched a guide, or shouldn't be carried, insert any other reason here.... If I want to run my expert or grind dungeons for tomes as example, on a more "professional/above average" scale, I go with friends or open a PF. The moment I join DF, not only have the other 3 people to adapt to my standards but I need to do that too.

Coming with the "I want that run done under 3.5 minutes" mindset isn't gonna work. If you join the DF, bring patience and some politeness, and while there are outstanding groups out there, that do use the DF more often than most of us, it's not the majority and shouldn't be seen as that.

It took me a long time (nearly 2 years actually) to understand that not everybody has the same mindset. Things that upset's me are most likely not going to upset someone else etc. So running with a parser through leveling or old dungeons, expecting players to have dps that they have somewhere seen on fflog, is just the funniest stuff I've ever seen or read about, and sadly to say, that's not what the parser is for.

to the OP, I personally wouldn't worry much about it, sure it can ruin your whole day or make you questioning yourself, however there will be always players like that. Those have watched a twitch/youtube channel, and basing the performance of everybody else but themselves of what they've seen. Not on anything that might be logical or might be happening because of different circumstances. If that "mentor" had such issue, he/she should have removed him/herself from the group.

Not trying to support bad players here but we all need to give it a break and stop acting like we are better. Back in the day, we used specific tools too, but that was for raid content or when selling content, we weren't using it for sheer entertainment or to harass someone. That's plain out wrong and going to far.

[Crysten]

So from your response to my comment my guess is you (because we are all assuming here) would see someone without optimal gear and tell them they are crap and should be booted for the carry. From your lack of understanding of how the game works I would ask who is carrying who?

I would kill to find a pragmatic poster on this forum, I swear. I don't know how the game works? Neither do you, because there is something I can do to control the situation and make this problem go away - leave the duty myself.

Am I going to do this with players who are correctly geared, know base rotations and are genuinely trying? Of course not, and to suggest otherwise is nothing short of insulting.

Am I going to do this to players like the OP, who choose to artificially boost iLevel, wear the incorrect gear and whine when critique is offered? Damn right I will.

I just choose to not put up with it. I just leave the duty, find something else productive to do with my 30 minute lockout and leave people like you to do the heavy lifting instead. You have the patience to teach terrible, lazy, self-entitled players? Good for you. I don't. I'm not a mentor. I used to be, but experiences with players such as the OP and apologists such as yourself made me jack that in.

I don't see how giving someone a hug, a pat on the head and a free carry is any incentive in the slightest to get better at the game. Answer me this - realistically, is a person in i145 gear in Sohr Khai who just got a free carry going to spend the next couple of days taking your advice, getting their gear up to snuff and practicing their rotations, or are they going to watch the cutscene and then waltz right into Nidhogg Easy mode (and shit that up as well)?

[TaleraRistain]

A couple of points

1) If you're going to wear the crown, live up to the crown. If not, then don't wear it.
2) Going into DF with any expectation is pretty dumb and if you want to control what you get, go in preformed
3) Bitching about someone's low DPS in an MSQ dungeon is pretty dumb, too

[Vidu]

2) Going into DF with any expectation is pretty dumb and if you want to control what you get, go in preformed

Expecting someone in a level 60 dungeon to wear gear thats appropriate for that content (ilvl150 is NOT - even if the average ilvl might come close to whats needed) and have important crossclass is "dumb"?
I'd rather say: Going in with that kind of gear and without your crossclasskills and expect everyone to be totally fine with that is dumb.

To me it doesnt matter if a run takes 5 minutes longer - if I can see that the person in question is trying their best. Not giving a f*ck about your gear and skills is pretty damn unrespectful towards your fellow players - or shows that you lack the knowledge about the game (as in: knowing what kind of gear is for your job?). And no, at level 60 in a 3.3 dungeon you're not getting of as "Hey, I'm new!"

Honestly, people like the OP are the reason we're having ilvls in place at all - so people have to gear up and ensure that dungeons can be completed - and that in an acceptable time.

(I got a tank in DV recently, his best right-side-piece was a level39-NQ-earring, his HP were only slightly above mine, as a monk. We engage with the first group and tell you what: The healer, being somewhat new themself couldnt keep them up - no surprise, with basically missing about 3k HP. As friendly as possible, I tell the tank that he REALLY has to upgrade those accessories and he admits that he was being to "cheap" to buy some actual ones. So... what do we do? We abonden the run before we even reached the first boss. Just no chance - BUT he was totally able to queue up for the dungeon even though his gear wasnt okay for it)