Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[AutoWhit]

Can't wait to see what all of you "you better be dpsing if there's nothing to heal" people have to say when the combat changes come in 4.0 and healers either can't dps at all, or their dps viability gets so nerffed it's not even worth it to switch stances.

Just guessing, of course, but I can see SE putting an end to this argument. I have a feeling there's gonna be a whole lot of dpsers out there that are gonna be upset at having to step up their game rather than blame healers for low party dps.

[Hazakh]

Can't wait to see what all of you "you better be dpsing if there's nothing to heal" people have to say when the combat changes come in 4.0 and healers either can't dps at all, or their dps viability gets so nerffed it's not even worth it to switch stances.

Just guessing, of course, but I can see SE putting an end to this argument.

You're missing the point. If the combat changes towards that direction, then the players will eventually adjust to optimise for that kind of playstyle. However, what's in discussion is the CURRENT state of the game where healers are fully capable of putting out decent DPS while keeping everyone up in health without dying.

[Risvertasashi]

Just guessing, of course, but I can see SE putting an end to this argument.

SE's actions so far have been to acknowledge healer DPSing as a playstyle but to continue to design encounters without the expectation of healer DPS. I don't share your confidence that SE will change it much.

The real tragedy of this thread is it's devolved into yet another healer DPS argument, instead of the ridiculously low bar for kicking people.

[jameseoakes]

Can't wait to see what all of you "you better be dpsing if there's nothing to heal" people have to say when the combat changes come in 4.0 and healers either can't dps at all, or their dps viability gets so nerffed it's not even worth it to switch stances.

Just guessing, of course, but I can see SE putting an end to this argument. I have a feeling there's gonna be a whole lot of dpsers out there that are gonna be upset at having to step up their game rather than blame healers for low party dps.

I think a lot of us would stop healing and cause some serious problems with queues also to make that viable they would have to increase the healing requirements and make more mechanics for healers to deal with which would probably affect the players who struggle with healing and can't DPS a lot more than the ones who can do both.

[Taika]

Can't wait to see what all of you "you better be dpsing if there's nothing to heal" people have to say when the combat changes come in 4.0 and healers either can't dps at all, or their dps viability gets so nerffed it's not even worth it to switch stances.

I would just quit playing any healer jobs. I chose healer especially because of the versatility of the role. If that's taken away, I will lose interest and try something else.

Just guessing, of course, but I can see SE putting an end to this argument. I have a feeling there's gonna be a whole lot of dpsers out there that are gonna be upset at having to step up their game rather than blame healers for low party dps.

Honestly, I highly doubt it will happen. DPS has been a vital part of all healer jobs in the game since 1.0... And they've emphasised it more and more with adding more DPS skills in Heavensward and then bringing the topic up in Novice hall.

Soloing, actually. Hard to level from 1 - 15 or do MSQs as a Healing Job if you lack any kind of ability to deal damage.

This argument is immediately invalidated by the sheer number of DPS abilities the healers have available for them - and the fact they keep gaining more and more DPS tools as they level higher.

Before level 15 - at the solo levels - WHM (Conjurer) only gets Stone and Aero. At the group content levels they get Stone II, Stone III, Aero II, Aero III, Holy and Assize (and Fluid Aura).

[Sylve]

I would just quit playing any healer jobs. I chose healer especially because of the versatility of the role. If that's taken away, I will lose interest and try something else.


Honestly, I highly doubt it will happen. DPS has been a vital part of all healer jobs in the game since 1.0... And they've emphasised it more and more with adding more DPS skills in Heavensward and then bringing the topic up in Novice hall.

The 3 current Healers use Direct/Regen and Shielding, while providing limited dps.

What we currently lack is a Healer with a bigger focus on offensive play. I'd love to play a healer that functioned by Healing as a product of dealing damage. Its the only other kind of healing we could get, unless you go for a hp drain style similar to Chloromancer from Rift.

This argument is immediately invalidated by the sheer number of DPS abilities the healers have available for them - and the fact they keep gaining more and more DPS tools as they level higher.

Before level 15 - at the solo levels - WHM (Conjurer) only gets Stone and Aero. At their group content levels they get Stone II, Stone III, Aero II, Aero III, Holy and Assize (and Fluid Aura).

Put on ilvl 150 gear. Go to Azys lla and use ONLY Stone I to kill things for a while.
It'll get real old, real fast.

Group content starts at level 10 by the way, Well before Stone II or any other DPS spell.
Guildhests may not be challenging endgame content, But it is still an introduction to party play.

If a player chose to start as a (CNJ)WHM, that WHM needs to be capable of actually killing things in MSQ quests, Leves and side quests.
Could you imagine trying to get from 1 - 60 via questing as a (CNJ)WHM with your ONLY damage spell being Stone I?
SE clearly thought that'd suck, so they made sure to give the Job adequate damage dealing spells that were flavorful to the Job without being the focus of the Job.

With Heavensward and the increase in mob HPs, healers again needed some assistance, hence, improved damage spells were added. Also for flavor. Who knows.

In party play, a Healer Heals things. Thats its focus, its purpose. Are you, the player, capable of performing that role and then doing more? If you can, awesome! Keep on doing that. Meanwhile, the ones who cannot (for whatever reason) will continue to muddle along performing adequately for the role.
Healer dps is optional and supplemental in Party play, Healers were not designed from the ground up with DPS in mind.
When a Healer does DPS in a dungeon when I'm tanking, i welcome it as a pleasant surprise (as long as I'm not getting splatted through lack of heals). Its just a bonus to me, a slightly faster run.
I will never enforce DPS on a healer that isn't interested or capable just because they have the spells.
Otherwise we'd be forcing Summoners to heal themselves just because they have Physik.

Lastly; Sheer number of dps skills? A WHM has 4 Single target spells, 1 AoE, a defensive spell and a Heal on a cooldown that also happens to do damage.
There is no rotation beyond applying DoTs and then spamming Stone or Holy.

[Neophyte]

Can't wait to see what all of you "you better be dpsing if there's nothing to heal" people have to say when the combat changes come in 4.0 and healers either can't dpsat all, or their dps viability gets so nerffed it's not even worth it to switch stances.

Just guessing, of course, but I can see SE putting an end to this argument. I have a feeling there's gonna be a whole lot of dpsers out there that are gonna be upset at having to step up their game rather than blame healers for low party dps.

You do know that the acc requirements on dungeons (Antitower) got lifted and one the most important reason for adding materia slots to current gear was healers complaining about not even having the option to dps properly?

If at all, they make it more easy to deal dps comfortably (like getting rid of CS and acc), therefore making it even more common.
Sure, they can dumb down the numbers, but still...
A WHM in ex roulette can deal 800+ dps through the whole run (without getting into healing/mp issues). Make that 400 and it's still better than doing nothing, especially with no stance dance (which means almost no risk).

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Can't wait to see what all of you "you better be dpsing if there's nothing to heal" people have to say when the combat changes come in 4.0 and healers either can't dps at all, or their dps viability gets so nerffed it's not even worth it to switch stances.

Just guessing, of course, but I can see SE putting an end to this argument. I have a feeling there's gonna be a whole lot of dpsers out there that are gonna be upset at having to step up their game rather than blame healers for low party dps.

If they actually forced healers to only heal without scaling the damage to properly accommodate such a change, you'll see the queues become near unbearable. Why bother queuing for dungeons when you'll spend 50-80% standing around spamming emotes? I can speak only for myself, but I scarcely bother with Expert Roulette nowadays already since capping tomes is easy. A change like this would mean I never even look at dungeons.

What I do expect to happen in Stormblood is Cleric Stance being removed and healer damage being calculated through Mind not unlike how they changed tank damage to scale through both VIT and STR.

If a player chose to start as a (CNJ)WHM, that WHM needs to be capable of actually killing things in MSQ quests, Leves and side quests.
Could you imagine trying to get from 1 - 60 via questing as a (CNJ)WHM with your ONLY damage spell being Stone I?
SE clearly thought that'd suck, so they made sure to give the Job adequate damage dealing spells that were flavorful to the Job without being the focus of the Job.

That explains the various Stone tiers, however if SE didn't anticipate healer damage. Why give them arguably the most potent aoes in the entire game? Holy and Gravity will generally out-DPS Dragoons and Ninjas-- two dedicated DPS jobs-- while Aero III (and its equivalents) only adds to the sheer immense potency a healer can deal. None of these abilities are even remotely required for any MSQ content.