Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[Alistaire]

It's important to distinguish between 'ideal MMO design' and what is currently present in FFXIV. I think healing should be intensive enough that it's a full-time job, but that's not how FFXIV is designed.

This needs to be emphasized so much.

When you refuse to dps as a healer in this game you are being willfully ignorant of how this game is designed.

[RLofOBFL]

I just think it is unbelievably frustrating when the team is giving it their all & the healer is literally using cure every 5 seconds when I have 33K-41K HP & only took 4K damage. So I"d survive another 45~ seconds at least on HP alone not considering Equilibrium(8K)/Thrill of battle(9K)/Clemency(8K)/Souleater(2K)/Hallowed Ground/Bloodbath/Abyssal drain(700 per enemy) OR my many many defensive CDs.

The above only really applies to dungeons, in relevant normal Raids, Savage, & EX primals I can understand not wanting to DPS most of the time to prepare for oncoming damage, but Savage raiders actually DO damage AND manage to keep everyone alive, not that I expect that from every player but it is possible, and I think that is a sign of truly skilled people.

[Rennies]

Ugh, people still can't get it through their skulls that DPSing as a healer when the team will survive does in fact make you better than a 0 DPS healer.

Maybe I should take some names from this thread and just spam Ruin and unsummon my pet when I meet these people. You ignore your toolkit, I ignore mine.

[seekified]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

[Crysten]

Mediocrity makes you awesome

I don't understand your logic at all here.

My primary dungeon strategy on SCH is to let Eos do the heavy lifting while I DPS.

So you're saying that I could do the bare minimum (Summon > afk) and that makes me a good player and not a lazy fuckwit? I mean, I'm performing my primary role just fine as long as no one dies, right?

How is that any different than the hundreds of healers that Medica II and then literally stand around doing nothing?

At the end of the day, from a tank/DPS perspective in dungeons I solve the heal only problem by taking more risks. I'll tank in Sword Oath/Deliverance/Darkside or intentionally get hit with non lethal AOEs to keep my DPS high. Both parties get a win win that way.

Lazy healers get triggered, heavy healers get something to do and the party gets more DPS!

[Paranoir]

I cant understand why people insist on sticking to the notion that healers should do no damage. It's actively encouraged in the novice hall. Are you all saying SE don't know how to play there own game or something?
Sure you don't have to, just as the tank doesn't have to do anything more than use just enough enmity moves, and the dps hit some buttons every so often, maybe pop a cooldown. You'll still complete the run in the 60mins right?

People can do either or, but to say no damage as a healer in this game is the standard is crazy given the design favors the opposite. A healer than can balance healing and damage will provide a smother and quicker run than one that cant.
Might not be by much but still better than a slow run.

All i hear each time this comes up is why aim for an A or B when i can pass with a C. This game has a problem with advocating mediocrity at the expense of other peoples play experience.

Or is your gametime the most important?

[Seig345]

It sounds like Sylve is talking about players who are trying their best but maybe aren't playing top notch, while Neophyte is talking about a bump on a log auto-following the party and contributing nothing, and responding to each other as if they've swapped what kind of players they're talking about. I think the discrepancy here is intention/effort vs outright skill.

If a player is trying their best, but are using imperfect rotations/forgetting to use certain cooldowns or optimizing their downtime as a healer by throwing in DPS when they're safely able to do so, I feel like you could call them a 'good player' in terms of the fact that they're trying, but perhaps they're lacking in the skill department (I refer to skill as in skill you can improve through practice, not innate skill where they're simply "dumb") and just need more practice or some advice. Unskilled, sure, but they're trying.

However, if a player is deliberately just tagging along and doing absolutely nothing, or outright sits at the entrance doing nothing, then within the context of this game they are a bad player. This game is about cooperation with other players. Your subscription fee entitles you access to the game's servers and the ability to create a character on it, it does not inherently entitle you to play however you want despite (or even TO spite) your fellow players without any form of consequence leveled at you by said fellow players.

[Sylve]

It sounds like Sylve is talking about players who are trying their best but maybe aren't playing top notch, while Neophyte is talking about a bump on a log auto-following the party and contributing nothing, and responding to each other as if they've swapped what kind of players they're talking about. I think the discrepancy here is intention/effort vs outright skill.

If a player is trying their best, but are using imperfect rotations/forgetting to use certain cooldowns or optimizing their downtime as a healer by throwing in DPS when they're safely able to do so, I feel like you could call them a 'good player' in terms of the fact that they're trying, but perhaps they're lacking in the skill department (I refer to skill as in skill you can improve through practice, not innate skill where they're simply "dumb") and just need more practice or some advice. Unskilled, sure, but they're trying.

However, if a player is deliberately just tagging along and doing absolutely nothing, or outright sits at the entrance doing nothing, then within the context of this game they are a bad player. This game is about cooperation with other players. Your subscription fee entitles you access to the game's servers and the ability to create a character on it, it does not inherently entitle you to play however you want despite (or even TO spite) your fellow players without any form of consequence leveled at you by said fellow players.

You understand perfectly what I'm getting at. Thank you.
And now you've said it, that i didn't see the misunderstanding i was making towards Neophytes posts makes me feel a bit silly.

[Neophyte]

It sounds like Sylve is talking about players who are trying their best but maybe aren't playing top notch, while Neophyte is talking about a bump on a log auto-following the party and contributing nothing, and responding to each other as if they've swapped what kind of players they're talking about. I think the discrepancy here is intention/effort vs outright skill.


If a player is trying their best, but are using imperfect rotations/forgetting to use certain cooldowns or optimizing their downtime as a healer by throwing in DPS when they're safely able to do so, I feel like you could call them a 'good player' in terms of the fact that they're trying, but perhaps they're lacking in the skill department (I refer to skill as in skill you can improve through practice, not innate skill where they're simply "dumb") and just need more practice or some advice. Unskilled, sure, but they're trying.

However, if a player is deliberately just tagging along and doing absolutely nothing, or outright sits at the entrance doing nothing, then within the context of this game they are a bad player. This game is about cooperation with other players. Your subscription fee entitles you access to the game's servers and the ability to create a character on it, it does not inherently entitle you to play however you want despite (or even TO spite) your fellow players without any form of consequence leveled at you by said fellow players.

My evil twin. D: (Or wait, am I the evil one?)

I think I made it pretty clear that I talk about players "refusing" to do specific things, although it would make everything smoother/faster/safer (=better); and instead idle or repeatedly do "unneccessary" things (like overhealing with Cure II a tank with 21.000/23.000 HP).

I already said: Don't call the players bad, call their actions bad (if they're bad).
If you have a player who does countless "bad" actions, then we don't have to discuss about the label for that player I think.
Also this is nothing personal. It's just an evaluation of the performance of a specific player.
As said, I don't kick any players usually anyway and because of the low receptivity of some players I don't even mention it (unless it looks like he really just doesn't know better). But I always rate their actions and (in conversation later on) I'd might summarize this under "bad player" .

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Overhealing is bad.
Doing nothing is bad.

Always be casting.


Do your best to keep everyone alive.
If there's no need to heal when your GCD comes up, you might as well throw in some damage so you're actually doing something instead of just waiting.

If you're not confident enough to swap into cleric stance yet, even just practicing by throwing out damage spells without stance swapping can help you learn when you'll be able to stance dance safely.

...
At the end of the day, from a tank/DPS perspective in dungeons I solve the heal only problem by taking more risks. I'll tank in Sword Oath/Deliverance/Darkside or
...

Well, you should be using Darkside anyway.
It's not mutually exclusive with Grit. ;P