The Feast is SO much better without chat

[jameseoakes]

Wrong, this thread is showing people debating a subject both sides feel passionate and justified about.

People disagree, people argue. Restricting means to do so doesn't solve the problem, it merely forces people to withhold tensions and either vent elsewhere, or worse, act on them.

If restricting the chat was the proper fix for this, then what answer would you have for all the new people who have no means to ask questions and learn during a match? Or the veterans who are forced to stay silent and allow avoidable mistakes to go uncorrected?


People disagree, people argue. Restricting means to do so doesn't solve the problem.

Well naming and shaming someone who trys to put forward the alteritive view kinda reinforces the issues that have lead to SE taking the action they have. It is a very lazy action to take but then given that it is a very minor game mode they probably don't want to put the resources in that would be needed to sort out the toxicity.

[KiraCifer]

Well naming and shaming someone who trys to put forward the alteritive view kinda reinforces the issues that have lead to SE taking the action they have. It is a very lazy action to take but then given that it is a very minor game mode they probably don't want to put the resources in that would be needed to sort out the toxicity.

all SE did was screw up no fix it cause frankly with everyone able to see the person full name and what realm their from people will just make a character there and then chew them out on being bad in pvp for doing stupid nothing or whatever reason and end with themselves with reports like crazy.

I mean myself there a few I gotten in match's who are really bad and then get them again a match or two later and their ten times better then when they were on my team and quite frankly since can't say anything I'm about to start spamming out GM reports on these people.

[jameseoakes]

all SE did was screw up no fix it cause frankly with everyone able to see the person full name and what realm their from people will just make a character there and then chew them out on being bad in pvp for doing stupid nothing or whatever reason and end with themselves with reports like crazy.

Well that would be some pretty hefty abuse and you would hope they'd get there account banned for that.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

given that it is a very minor game mode. . .

I've seen this point raised several times and I feel it needs to be properly addressed:

Whether big or small, if it's in game and there are issues with it, it requires a proper fix. Fishing glitches, Skybears, stationary raid bosses that can suddenly be knocked back, harrassment issues, exploits, etc. . . The size of the matter doesn't absolve SE of dealing with it properly. It may not warrant immediate change, but that doesn't mean it can be overlooked or brushed aside.

On a separate note, I don't condone naming and shaming except in the most heinous of cases (PvP hardly being one of them), and I'm certainly not attacking your words on the matter, and I hope I haven't caused such a misunderstanding. I'm simply speaking up where I feel it's necessary.

[Februs]

It is a very lazy action to take but then given that it is a very minor game mode they probably don't want to put the resources in that would be needed to sort out the toxicity.

The population of the game mode is irrelevant in regards to SE's obligation to fix it.

The savage raiding community is tiny in comparison to the whole of the player base, yet every single issue that is raised within those raids is subsequently addressed and resolved in short order. The same could be said for things that are seemingly insignificant, such as Chocobo racing, Lords of Verminion, Triple Triad, or even minion collectors. We could sit here all day and divide the game up into it's many different parts and quantify the number of players in each, but the bottom line is that all of them, no matter how niche, are paying customers. We all pay the same subscription. SE is very firmly in the wrong if they think it is okay to discriminate against a portion of their subscription base, no matter how small that portion is. That is especially the case considering the alleged toxicity is by no means exclusive to any single part of this game.

[Chronons]

The population of the game mode is irrelevant in regards to SE's obligation to fix it.

The savage raiding community is tiny in comparison to the whole of the player base, yet every single issue that is raised within those raids is subsequently addressed and resolved in short order. The same could be said for things that are seemingly insignificant, such as Chocobo racing, Lords of Verminion, Triple Triad, or even minion collectors. We could sit here all day and divide the game up into it's many different parts and quantify the number of players in each, but the bottom line is that all of them, no matter how niche, are paying customers. We all pay the same subscription. SE is very firmly in the wrong if they think it is okay to discriminate against a portion of their subscription base, no matter how small that portion is. That is especially the case considering the alleged toxicity is by no means exclusive to any single part of this game.

This is just wishful thinking. SE has limited resources and time. They will use those to affect the greatest number of players possible. That means invariably niche portions of the game will receive less attention. We all pay the same subscription fee, but SE stands to lose more money catering to minority interests than they do with the majority. Its not discrimination to run a business properly.

Also as an aside, more people want to be/are interested in raiding than participating in pvp. To compare the two is to compare apples and oranges.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

It's worth noting that the "limited time and resources" thing isn't quite so true anymore, and at least as far as resources, SE themselves declared they were in a pretty good spot, moving forward into Stormblood. So that no longer really holds weight.

Beyond that, if one continuously overlooks minority issues and loses people for it, pretty soon that scale gets unbalanced. If SE isn't willing to properly support PvP content and the player community that has formed around it, they should never have done so in the first place. Granted, those looking for that experience will have gone elsewhere, and still can, but it's a bad argument to say "well since there's so few of you, you're less important". ASTs were the least played job til recently; by that logic, it was a loss to bother buffing/balancing them.

SE, AND the players need to understand something: Personal opinions of PvP aside, it's part of this game. To say it doesn't deserve proper support or handling of big issues is the same as saying anything else in this game doesn't deserve it. And that would be equally wrong to say of anything in the game. Simply put: If there's an issue with gameplay and the community that engages in it primarily cries out for a fix or change, it deserves proper handling. The size of the problem is irrelevant. (EDIT) As an addendum, consider this: If you cater to a niche market, and you keep them happy, that's guaranteed money. What they want, they either can get anywhere but choose you, OR they can't get it elsewhere, and you're offering them something they'll pay for. From a business standpoint, I'd want to keep those people happy to keep them loyal.

[Chronons]

snip

Don't get me wrong now. Iv'e been PVPing since back when all we had was lvl 50 Wolve's Den and the only rewards were the fun of it. Ill continue to pvp regardless of whether SE removes chat, takes away our unique rewards, or whatever else could come down the pipeline. However, I would like to interact to a few of your points.

"Limited time and resources" is and will always be a true statement. Sure SE may have more money now than at other points in the games history, but that doesn't mean they can do everything. There is still a choice of risk/reward with time and funding. It will always be true that spending those resources on the majority will yield greater returns, unless they charge the minorities more for the same resource allocation.

I dont think they should ignore the niche communities in the game, especially PVP. I want my chat back in a ranked mode. Im tired of losing for stupid reasons. I have brought new people into PVP who have been frustrated with it because they cant ask question/get feedback on the fly. I dont even think that its morally acceptable for SE to ignore the PVP community regarding these issues. Im only saying that since we are a small community it is not surprising or unreasonable that SE drags their feet on it from a business perspective. They dont make as much money investing in PVP as they do in other areas. I dont like like that, but i'm not going to pretend like that is unreasonable from their perspective.

i still don't understand why ppl here get mad for everything i wasnt laughin on u but the thing that ppl says : pvp is minority , raid is minority , everything is minority and my question was : what ppl actually do

I am not mad, just forward. Argumentation does not have to equate to anger.

[Februs]

This is just wishful thinking. SE has limited resources and time. They will use those to affect the greatest number of players possible. That means invariably niche portions of the game will receive less attention. We all pay the same subscription fee, but SE stands to lose more money catering to minority interests than they do with the majority. Its not discrimination to run a business properly.

Also as an aside, more people want to be/are interested in raiding than participating in pvp. To compare the two is to compare apples and oranges.

There's nothing wishful about this.

Firstly, this myth about SE having limited resources needs to stop. SE is a big company with millions of dollars at their disposal. Worse yet, when SE releases their yearly profit margin, guess which game has been almost solely responsible for keeping their company in the green. Bingo. This one (the Tomb Raider reboots have done well, though). They're not hurting for anything. Regardless, the real myth here is that it would take any more resources than they are already using. It won't. SE implements the exact same system in PvP as it does in PvE, and it functions equally in both. Further, contrary to popular belief, SE does frequently ban people from PvP based on reports for illicit activities. Those bans are usually prioritized by cheating, followed by racial slurs, then harassment. There is no magical extra expense to their company by doing this, because they were already doing it. If I'm not mistaken, that particular aspect of the game is actually covered by their legally binding Terms of Service. Meaning that, regardless of expense, they must do what they have said that they will do. That's a fact. It's also worth pointing out that it is more than likely that none of our reports (PvE or PvP) actually see a real human's hands unless they are first flagged by an automated system, hence why a lot of things slip through the cracks.

Secondly, in what way is PvP somehow smaller or less relevant to their subscription base? What are we comparing here, exactly? Raids? Trials? Crafting/gathering? Casual dungeon runs? I'm sorry, but no. PvP has long held the stigma of having a "minority," except that minority is actually no smaller than something like the Savage Raid community. You cannot arbitrarily pick one group out of the whole and say they're not relevant, yet somehow not apply the same reasoning to every other niche area of this game by counting them as part of the whole. Further, if you want to talk about running a business properly, than they'd be going about it completely wrong. Why? Because the casual content of this game has no staying power. SE releases a whopping 2 dungeons per patch, followed by one raid. They stretch the lifespan of that content out a bit by applying weekly gear/tome caps, but in the end, you're still only running the same 3 things over and over. Further, if you do not participate in the niche community of extreme trials or savage raids, than you have no reason to EVER run that content repeatedly, because you have no need to optimize your gear. This is why casual players often drift from sub to sub, only renewing when new content is patched in. Do you know what keeps people subbed for longer periods of time? Investment (or time sync) content, which happens to be the minority content such as savage/extreme level raids, trials and PvP. SE has already acknowledged this fact. Their implementation of the feast was their first attempt at creating a sustainable PvP game mode for the sake of keeping people invested (hence the implementation of ranked seasons). They've also already publicly sated that Stormblood will have a stronger focus on PvP. Why? Because it has more staying power than casual content which gets stale after the first week. Ignoring the minority which provides a stable monetary gain is illogical for running a business.

Lastly, saying that more people are interested in attempting savage raids than PvP is an arbitrary statement that cannot be backed up by any evidence. Do you have proof of that? Is there data somewhere showing how many Savage level Raids are attempted per week compared to how many matches of PvP are played? Does SE ever mention it or provide data on the subject. No. They don't. In fact, if anything the information that we have would suggest otherwise. Do know how many savage level raid events there have been since 3.0? Zero, aside from the raids themselves. Do you know how many PvP events there have been? Six, including 3 seasons of Ranked Feast, 2 "developer spotlight" events (which could be further divided across data-centres), and the most recent garo event. That's an awful lot of commitment to a community which is supposedly a minority with less interest. Further, you can actually track how many PvP matches happen in a day by data centre. SE keeps score of our rankings, in which there are literally hundreds of matches played per person. The same cannot be said of the savage raid community, because there's simply no data to back up any such whimsical statements other than the fact that they are both relatively small when compared to the greater whole.

[Moonlite]

There's nothing wishful about this.

Not that I support wishful thinking stereo type. But if they don't have the skill labor to implement, then it doesn't matter how much money they have. It also seems/implied they are looking for Japanese skilled labor. If they can't find people to work with then they have no one.

To the report thing, yes they might get to everything eventually. They might ban that bot from 2.1 some time in 4.3 because it showed up on the list finally. You never tell your boss, it is on the list what would you like bumped if you want it done faster. I (not speaking for everyone) get no sense of justice from bans that happen after 72 hours. Do they even know it was because of how they treated someone on Wednesday feb first?