Isn't it a bit disheartening whats on the Horizon to all Hw content?

[bswpayton]

On your Ifrit mention, I want to point out these solo vids: SCH and WAR. Those are just a couple of them too, not to mention the many that did them without recording it.

What's the challenge? Think about it like this. Remember the Hunt hype that happened? About how people were zerging the hell out of them (i.e. overpowering the content) and all mobs were dropping like flies, damn to hell any dangerous mechanics. Then when i.

I know unsync isnt going anywhere thats why I was calling for a plea for extra rewards for doing the content sync so that people joining the game would have a legit chance of learning the fights as they were intended. I feel like if nothing changes when storm blood comes out and all the fresh new players , and jump potion players have ran over half their clears unsync, or skipped them all, I hope to see not a peep on the forums if people suck at the sb primals or raids.

The gap is so wide between a dungeon and a primal or raid that Id expect nothing less from players who only ran stuff unysnc or skipped everything. So if nothing changes then fine but please dont bash players when the community created an environment for new comers that says this game is super easy until you get to the new stuff. If we have an environment where you have to go out of ur way to learn how to be good at harder content then please never complain about players not meeting dps checks , or not knowing how to do mechanics in any of the new content that comes out either. And any time I duty finder a primal and see new players they are actually the ones that never give up, so I wouldnt just say they all want it easy.

[dragonseth07]

snip

Oh, please. You think it's running stuff unsynced that makes bad players in this game? Don't make me laugh. Bad players are everywhere in this game for a few reasons.

First, this is often someone's first MMO. This game attracts FF fans who have never touched an MMO in their life. They come from a single player RPG background where optimization is far from needed, and you can power through content on the back of anime-style believing in yourself.

Second, there is a prevalent player culture of disregarding all feedback and critique. This is somewhat a fault of the NA scene in general, but this game has it bad. SE doesn't even allow parsers because terribad players might get their feelings hurt when they get called out for underperforming.

[bswpayton]

Oh, please. You think it's running stuff unsynced that makes bad players in this game? Don't make me laugh. Bad players are everywhere in this game for a few reasons.

.

I see reference to it all the time , that mechanics are rehashed all the time in this game so you tell me where exactly if someone runs most stuff unsync up to storm blood when they wana participate in the new stuff that everyone says to do , where is that person gona see these mechanics. remember when Id hated getting aurum vale in df now its nothing, I remember when I coudlnt do a big pull as a tank at all now its nothing, so its all a matter of learning and experiencing. And when storm blood comes this will be two whole expansions where you basically have to skip everything unless you go out of your way , that makes a huge difference to me I dont see how you could see it any other way.

Like with the new primal now people are sayin its nothing we havent seen before well for newer people they havent seen it because when they ran the content they killed that instance in five mins. So if people want everyone to only do whats new then dont complain when someone is just tryin to keep track with everyone else , when they have had zero legit experience with any challenge. Or dont get made when SE nerfs content because its to hard for some players that didnt get any legit practice in on anything. So now its post up about dont learn how to fight a primal on this new one well where else are they gona learn if you cant even get a que for the old stuff so they are in the right place according to community standards. And to say that all players will be bad regardless is just not true , I personally have come a long way from when I first started this game. I

[Welsper59]

I know unsync isnt going anywhere thats why I was calling for a plea for extra rewards for doing the content sync so that people joining the game would have a legit chance of learning the fights as they were intended. I feel like if nothing changes when storm blood comes out and all the fresh new players , and jump potion players have ran over half their clears unsync, or skipped them all, I hope to see not a peep on the forums if people suck at the sb primals or raids.

The gap is so wide between a dungeon and a primal or raid that Id expect nothing less from players who only ran stuff unysnc or skipped everything. So if nothing changes then fine but please dont bash players when the community created an environment for new comers that says this game is super easy until you get to the new stuff. If we have an environment where you have to go out of ur way to learn how to be good at harder content then please never complain about players not meeting dps checks , or not knowing how to do mechanics in any of the new content that comes out either. And any time I duty finder a primal and see new players they are actually the ones that never give up, so I wouldnt just say they all want it easy.

Referring to the bolded part on this. Yes, that's exactly why unsync'd has even more reason to exist. For you, I'm assuming there are at least two separate issues at play then.

If the new player wants to complete X fight from older patches/expansions, it's substantially easier to find someone to solo/low man it. They could even wait until they get higher in level/gear and do it themselves. But that plays into what I assume is the next issue.

If the new player wants to experience the fight as it was before, that's when they're making things harder for themselves. Even with the mentality of doing it sync'd in DF or whatever, you've already pointed out how people/vets leave the group. Do you think that's actually a better perspective to view this game as for the new player? That people don't like new players or that they're fickle players in wanting to help.

For the rest of your argument, that's absolutely no different than what it is now. People are going to suck at video games. That's a fact. Even in games that are stupidly more taxing on being able to play well, like FFXI, you still encountered some terrible players at max content. FFXIV has always held the players hand through everything (minus top tier raid difficulty). It is inevitable. Clearly, where we are now without level boosts and seeing terrible players rampant, we're going to always have that. It should be unsurprising. Level sync is not the culprit on the matter, as I indirectly pointed out.

Your focus should be more on the general difficulty and handholding that happens. Even just telling SE that we don't want gated content or that we don't want to get rid of easy dungeons for less skilled players to do, is enough to let SE continue this path and let a lot of those players into your game time. As I said, it's inevitable even then, but the difficulty will minimize the damage. So long as handholding exists, the ability to carry others, and lack of punishment for failure is a thing, things like level boosts and unsync do not do anything noticeable to worsen it. Even your plea for extra rewards to do content sync'd does little on the matter. Player mentality does not see burdens like that as worthwhile (most of the time), especially if the ilvl sync is high enough to overpower the content anyway, thus defeating that difficulty experience point you wanted anyway. Even if it was low, like world first raiding clear ilvl low, no one would really bother.

[Kosmos992k]

Referring to the bolded part on this. Yes, that's exactly why unsync'd has even more reason to exist. For you, I'm assuming there are at least two separate issues at play then.

If the new player wants to complete X fight from older patches/expansions, it's substantially easier to find someone to solo/low man it. They could even wait until they get higher in level/gear and do it themselves. But that plays into what I assume is the next issue.

If the new player wants to experience the fight as it was before, that's when they're making things harder for themselves. Even with the mentality of doing it sync'd in DF or whatever, you've already pointed out how people/vets leave the group. Do you think that's actually a better perspective to view this game as for the new player? That people don't like new players or that they're fickle players in wanting to help.

So, you're saying that it's OK to deny new players the chance to play the game as you or other veteran players did, deny the opportunity to learn the fights and dungeons as the veteran players did? If you're suggesting that for new players everything should be unsync'd because no veterans will run them sync'd, then I have to ask why bother running them at all? There is no joy or fun in being pulled through an unsync'd run of anything, nor do you learn anything about your job/class, mechanics or even the lore. How can that be better for new players? Seriously, why even bother running it at all?

If you take that to it's logical extension, why even make players play any content more than 12 months old, since all veterans overgear and unsync it anyway? In fact if you go that far, would it not be better to halt gear and level progression completely and just deliver new content? There is no need for gear progression really. Since no one runs older content anyway, the new gear is only relevant in the new content. The only relevant content (according to many in this 'community') is end-game. Logically speaking then old gear is as dead as old content in that situation. That focus on gear progression renders any older content and gear redundant in record time.

When I joined FFXIV during the phase 3 beta, one of the features I was interested in was level sync because it offered a way in which older content could remain challenging and relevant regardless of level or gear. Now though the deficiencies of that system are clear, and it's even been made optional on so much content. The game has dozens of dungeons and yet how many of them are still considered relevant or challenging? Half of them or less? Probably less. Primals too, it often seems that within the space of time for a single patch, older primals are only considered even partially relevant in EX mode - which was originally an optional mode, much like savage was optional.

I actually find it pretty pathetic that we as a player community are so hostile to the concept of running content as intended, or helping new players experience the game as intended. This is one particular area where the rapid gear progression has laid waste to the game's own content. To the point where many players resent being incentivized to run it for Relic upgrades, and consequently actively dislike older content, and will not run it sync'd. Ironically being able to overgear and unsync early content allowing speed runs over and over has probably done more to damage content and to burn out players than anything else. But, heaven forbid that relics should take time to acquire and upgrade. Of course that too is a victim of progression since the relic upgrade path seems to be designed to allow dedicated players to keep pace with other forms of gearing - at the expense of the content - via speed runs and grinding.

I think that this kind of 'forcing' older content, but allowing it to be facerolled quickly, is really quite unhelpful in the end.

But, without massive changes to progression and level sync, I don't see how any of it can be helped. Of course, if progression and level sync were changed in the ways I imagine, to slow progression and make level sync bite, The backlash from many players would be instant and vitriolic. In many ways it seems that those players have 'won' the day and the game's future is therefore fixed, and ultimately (I think) self defeating.

right I would never do WT with a pug group if it was synced content. Or I would just not do it. the rewards can never be good enough. unless one of them is the fire bird lol.

Some gamer you are then. Honestly, you're not alone with that opinion, but I question the motivation of players like yourself. It seems to me that you are not interested in the actual game, only in acquiring the various tchotchkes that the game offers. I love collecting things too, but I also love playing games, and the challenge. It seems though that many players - such as yourself - have become very averse to challenge, or play; and only wish an easy life to collect the 'stuff'.

thats how everything was at the end of ARR, cause of the ilevel powercreep this happened before HW came out and its nothing new

The answer to that is fix the ilevel powercreep through ilvl sync.

[RaijinSupreme]

snip

The challenge is in the new content. I don't need to play old content that I've already played to death when it was first released just for me to have a challenge. I have alexander savage for the challenge. I have plenty of other games I play for a challenge. Crafting is a challenge lol. Playing very old content again and again just to challenge myself is more annoying than anything.

I didn't say I didnt want to do because its too hard. I don't want to do it cause I've done it. Its old. Why subject myself to that when I've done it already?

If that's what you consider a challenge, knock yourself out. I hope you get your whistle and your songs or whatever lol.

But I'm good over here. Bring on the new stuff!

[RaijinSupreme]

Some gamer you are then. Honestly, you're not alone with that opinion, but I question the motivation of players like yourself. It seems to me that you are not interested in the actual game, only in acquiring the various tchotchkes that the game offers. I love collecting things too, but I also love playing games, and the challenge. It seems though that many players - such as yourself - have become very averse to challenge, or play; and only wish an easy life to collect the 'stuff'.

btw, It's pretty messed up for you to try and belittle someone simply because they don't share the same likes/dislikes & taste in gaming that you do. Not everyone cares about being challenged. People should be able to play the game however they feel without people like you judging them. A lot of people come on here simply for roleplaying/ crafting/ hanging with friends, etc, and that is totally fine with me. They are still no more or less a "gamer" than you simply because you want to run Titan EX synced and they don't.

[Welsper59]

So, you're saying that it's OK to deny new players the chance to play the game as you or other veteran players did, deny the opportunity to learn the fights and dungeons as the veteran players did? If you're suggesting that for new players everything should be unsync'd because no veterans will run them sync'd, then I have to ask why bother running them at all? There is no joy or fun in being pulled through an unsync'd run of anything, nor do you learn anything about your job/class, mechanics or even the lore. How can that be better for new players? Seriously, why even bother running it at all?

If you take that to it's logical extension, why even make players play any content more than 12 months old, since all veterans overgear and unsync it anyway? In fact if you go that far, would it not be better to halt gear and level progression completely and just deliver new content? There is no need for gear progression really. Since no one runs older content anyway, the new gear is only relevant in the new content. The only relevant content (according to many in this 'community') is end-game. Logically speaking then old gear is as dead as old content in that situation. That focus on gear progression renders any older content and gear redundant in record time.

When I joined FFXIV during the phase 3 beta, one of the features I was interested in was level sync because it offered a way in which older content could remain challenging and relevant regardless of level or gear. Now though the deficiencies of that system are clear, and it's even been made optional on so much content. The game has dozens of dungeons and yet how many of them are still considered relevant or challenging? Half of them or less? Probably less. Primals too, it often seems that within the space of time for a single patch, older primals are only considered even partially relevant in EX mode - which was originally an optional mode, much like savage was optional.

I actually find it pretty pathetic that we as a player community are so hostile to the concept of running content as intended, or helping new players experience the game as intended. This is one particular area where the rapid gear progression has laid waste to the game's own content. To the point where many players resent being incentivized to run it for Relic upgrades, and consequently actively dislike older content, and will not run it sync'd. Ironically being able to overgear and unsync early content allowing speed runs over and over has probably done more to damage content and to burn out players than anything else. But, heaven forbid that relics should take time to acquire and upgrade. Of course that too is a victim of progression since the relic upgrade path seems to be designed to allow dedicated players to keep pace with other forms of gearing - at the expense of the content - via speed runs and grinding.

I think that this kind of 'forcing' older content, but allowing it to be facerolled quickly, is really quite unhelpful in the end.

But, without massive changes to progression and level sync, I don't see how any of it can be helped. Of course, if progression and level sync were changed in the ways I imagine, to slow progression and make level sync bite, The backlash from many players would be instant and vitriolic. In many ways it seems that those players have 'won' the day and the game's future is therefore fixed, and ultimately (I think) self defeating.

You seem to be reaching on that one, to prove a point on something that doesn't exist. I have no issues with people wanting to do things as intended. I even encourage that if people really want to. What it comes down to though is how much effort someone is willing to put in to do it. The person I was replying to was arguing a point of discouragement for the new player. Vets leaving party because they saw the green leaf or just leaving for whatever other reason. Am I incorrect to say that, if the imaginary player really wanted to experience something in a specific way, they should use the tools available to them that lets them do it? Am I incorrect in saying that people grow tired of doing old content, and thus, a change of format would be nice? Why motion for people to change their natural perspectives on matters, when you know it'll be met with mass opposition? Do you ever grow bored of something? If you do, then you're essentially complaining about yourself.

What you're wanting is for some fantasy world where real life personalities and habits don't exist. Sad news for you though... those do exist in this game (and every game). People are lazy, negligent, and just overall hostile to each other. People don't choose to think or reflect on what they see, hear, or read, even if their response to it is contradictory to what was said/written. I am not against the idea of players wanting to experience content as intended. What I am against however, are people arguing that every single player, be it new or old, will want or should want to only be allowed to do it that way. The fact the tools exist to do what they want (sync), despite any ease (unsync), further dulls the complaint you and others have on it. Have you ever been in a situation where all you wanted to do was get a clear for something or met anyone in that situation? That you or they could not care less about how it was done? Yeah, that's who unsync was made for. People who don't prioritize doing something as intended, but rather they prioritize simply getting it done.

As for your critique about the impossibility of learning something from doing content not as intended or as the conventional norm goes, you really don't know what you're talking about. I've already pointed out examples of unconventional learning in a different reply here.

]What's the challenge? Think about it like this. Remember the Hunt hype that happened? About how people were zerging the hell out of them (i.e. overpowering the content) and all mobs were dropping like flies, damn to hell any dangerous mechanics. Then when it died down, those people that spent time doing something with less people ended up realizing those mobs had actual mechanics that made them more of a challenge than simply overpowering them. They came to that realization by not dominating the content in large groups. They did it in a format unconventional from the norm. Do you think those new players will realize the danger of mechanics if their group members carry them through all those mechanics because they overpower it, as we do now for practically everything? Of course not. Thus, how challenge is possible when you do things unconventionally.

That's not even including soloing or low-manning things that could be difficult. Cooldown management is very key for some of those tasks, whereas you probably wouldn't have to worry about it in a group with someone healing you. How can you possibly think that someone putting themselves in a situation that is even more difficult solo, won't learn anything about how to play? People don't just do faceroll content when they unsync, FYI.

Edit: BTW that quote of mines I added, that's an opportunity for you to show me, if you choose to reply, your ability to think for yourself. I'll give you a hint, Hunt mobs and unsync'd content are not the only forms of overpowering things we have and is part of why I said what I did there.

[Kosmos992k]

As for your critique about the impossibility of learning something from doing content not as intended or as the conventional norm goes, you really don't know what you're talking about. I've already pointed out examples of unconventional learning in a different reply here.

I'm not asking for a fantasy world, I'm asking for the game to stick to what it originally promised - level sync, and I believe that there are good reasons to do so, as I outlined.

That's not even including soloing or low-manning things that could be difficult. Cooldown management is very key for some of those tasks, whereas you probably wouldn't have to worry about it in a group with someone healing you. How can you possibly think that someone putting themselves in a situation that is even more difficult solo, won't learn anything about how to play? People don't just do faceroll content when they unsync, FYI.

Edit: BTW that quote of mines I added, that's an opportunity for you to show me, if you choose to reply, your ability to think for yourself. I'll give you a hint, Hunt mobs and unsync'd content are not the only forms of overpowering things we have and is part of why I said what I did there.

I know all about power creep and over gearing. I'm well aware of the many ways in which you can overgear or over power game mechanics. Putting yourself in a more difficult situation running something solo is a completely different animal to a light party swamping the difficulty of content. It's a completely different style of play. As for people facerolling content when they unsync, that is the most common complaint I read on the forum, right after people whining about content being boring after running it over and over unsync'd while farming - they complain it's too easy and boring.

The ironic thing about what you quote is this. You described the hunt zerg rush as the 'norm' and playing the content as intended (key phrase) as 'unconventional'. Your quote even says "Do you think those new players will realize the danger of mechanics if their group members carry them through all those mechanics because they overpower it, as we do now for practically everything? Of course not." then you say challenge is possible when running things unconventionally. No. The Zerg rush is not running the content as intended, it was not designed around it. You have labelled that as the norm and instead labeled the intended way to play it as 'unconventional. However you are explicitly agreeing with my point that new players will not learn mechanics by zerg rushing content. Dragging players through unsync'd dungeons is no differenet to zerging a hunt mark.

So, were the dungeons more appropriately sync'd what you call 'unconventional' play would be the norm and players would learn - as you yourself indicated. Where as what you call the 'norm' - unsyn'd speed runs for farming - would leave them learning very little. You appear to agree with the point I was making, thank you.

[alimdia]

I'm not quite sure why this thing is 11 pages long, the tool to do the fights synced is there, what else do you want? To force those who don't care about doing garuda ex synced for the 500th time because you don't want to recruit people for your synced run?