16 hours of cross server zurvan extreme party finder: my thoughts

[DGladius]

The OP's post is not so black and white. He's referring to the failure to grasp simple mechanics. He isn't demanding top tier perfection.



Take Southern Cross, for instance; it's literally "stack and move away after it's done casting." (Or "don't walk into where people were after it finishes casting", if you have decent spatial memory)
It's not a cognitively challenging mechanic, and it's quite similar to other mechanics seen in previous fights. (e.g. Meteorain in Thordan, Yesod in Sephirot, Weights in Titan)

Exactly, OP is talking about simple mechanics where a lot of ppl are still failing at. There's nothing elitist about saying how it's a problem if players are joining "clear parties and know all mechanics" but fail at those mechanics.

Sadly, this is a large NA mentality where not being knowledgeable of your job/class by max level, not putting much effort in having raid-awareness and caring about preparing yourself before joining group content that requires some thinking and skill is acceptable.

And those job trainers should really give out tutorials to players leveling up the job on how to play the job at an acceptable level. Not just have story cut-scenes, punch some things a little and poof here's your new skill.

[Fevelle]

If SE is going to make a game that requires skill...

But they are not going to make a game that requires skill. And if they do, it won't be FFXIV.
While I do agree that some players get on my nerves (looking at you ninja, after I called 999999 times I was going northeast but you still decided to overlap with me and got myself killed), this is just a game and so many things can be happening for a player to be playing poorly that I let it pass.

[Miste]

I think what you both (and many others in this thread) have completely missed is that OP was setting up their own party finders that were clearly labeled as "CLEAR PARTY, KNOW MECHANICS BEFORE YOU JOIN". No one is expecting everyone to know a fight on the first day. No one is expecting people to be perfect and never make a mistake.

What you missed is that OP's expectations are totally unreasonable, yet they blame others for their inability to clear.

It is very naive to think you can clear an EX primal first day of release with PF. Can it happen? Sure. High percent chance? Definitely not due to the fact there is no guides or videos available yet to assist people in learning the fight more thoroughly.

If you want to beat extreme/savage level new content on day one of release you get a static, end of story.

I get the point about players joining PFs when they ignore the requests to be knowledgeable up to a specific point (players should not do this to respect others) but if you notice they said a lot of other things in their post that were just general statements about people failing mechanics. They didn't even mention PF stipulations until their second paragraph so I assumed the two were unrelated.

It is a very unreasonable goal to have without a static and OP basically thinks their goal should be obtainable...and when it isn't they claim the community "ruined" it for them (which doesn't sound very nice if you ask me :/ )...you know even though the OP themselves was the one who wanted this personal goal for themselves by beating it day one.

My BF and I spent a few hours yesterday in RF practicing, and then today we joined PF's for 4-5 hours worth and I got my Zurvan clear in a PF group like 2 hours ago. The practice level of people from just yesterday to today has increased by a lot already.

[Dement]

What you missed is that OP's expectations are totally unreasonable, yet they blame others for their inability to clear.

It is very naive to think you can clear an EX primal first day of release with PF. Can it happen? Sure. High percent chance? Definitely not due to the fact there is no guides or videos available yet to assist people in learning the fight more thoroughly.

If you want to beat extreme/savage level new content on day one of release you get a static, end of story.

I get the point about players joining PFs when they ignore the requests to be knowledgeable up to a specific point (players should not do this to respect others) but if you notice they said a lot of other things in their post that were just general statements about people failing mechanics. They didn't even mention PF stipulations until their second paragraph so I assumed the two were unrelated.

It is a very unreasonable goal to have without a static and OP basically thinks their goal should be obtainable...and when it isn't they claim the community "ruined" it for them (which doesn't sound very nice if you ask me :/ )...you know even though the OP themselves was the one who wanted this personal goal for themselves by beating it day one.

My BF and I spent a few hours yesterday in RF practicing, and then today we joined PF's for 4-5 hours worth and I got my Zurvan clear in a PF group like 2 hours ago. The practice level of people from just yesterday to today has increased by a lot already.

Whether it's an unreasonable goal or not is debatable. On Balmung, at least, PF groups have been clearing EX Primals on day 1 since 2.2 introduced Leviathan. With cross server PF, I don't really think it's that unthinkable to clear an EX Primal on day 1 through the use of PF. Savage is likely a different story and I would agree with your assessment that a static is required if you want to try it on day 1 and hope to clear it. However, EX Primals have never been on the same level as Savage or Coil.

OP posted while frustrated and I can completely understand that frustration. One of the players in OPs group posted a tale of an AST in their party that wiped the run to Southern Cross and then claimed he didn't know what to do because he had never been that far before... in a clear party. Also, you're right, there are no video guides... so why are people joining clear groups when they haven't been through the fight and have no idea what is waiting for them. It's an incredibly rude thing to do but happens quite frequently. Pair that with the jump ship mentality that leads to everyone rapidly dropping party as soon as you exit an instance and I can absolutely understand OPs frustrations. While the OP was heavy handed in their initial post by berating the community as a whole, a subset of the community absolutely did ruin it for them whether it sounds nice or not.

It boggles my mind that people who knowingly join parties beyond their current skill level get more of a pass than someone who had a goal they wanted to achieve and posted appropriately labeled party finders to achieve said goal.

In addition, if we want to dissect things that could easily be considered "not very nice", of the two people I directly quoted, one implied on Page 2 or 3 that OP was on welfare to play video games all day the other ended their quote with the quintessential internet insult of "Go outside" after a long rant which included an analogy about getting matched with A+ players in duty finder... thus kind of proving that the clear party Party Finder was a completely missed point.

[Melondra]

to my knowlege that primal is gated. You have to clear the previouse primal's normal mode to acess it. The extream mode of it cannot be acessed until the normal mode of that primal is complted.

[Dement]

to my knowlege that primal is gated. You have to clear the previouse primal's normal mode to acess it. The extream mode of it cannot be acessed until the normal mode of that primal is complted.

You are correct but normal mode of that fight is an absolute joke and does very little to prepare anyone for anything (as pretty much all of the normal mode primals in heavensward).

[Voltres]

Starts playing Dec 2016...claims to have mastered the game mechanics (off-tanking mechanics LOL, that cracked me up), and the majority of the people that play with him is garbage..Some of wich have much more experience than him.

Im not the best dps, hell, im still learning...But even i can progress realy smoothly by asking adivce, instead of acting like a shity elitis, you should try it sometime.


LOL, gotta laugh.

This is my third account. L2read. I'm very kind in game, never call anyone out, don't act elitist, don't quit before it's over. This is a discussion forum, and I'm expressing my opinion saying that I have a hard time progressing since lots of people in this game care more about how their haircut matches their armor than to improve their game knowledge and reactions.

[Brian_]

Didn't watch a clear video. Didn't read up on mechanics. Cleared it in less than a lock-out maybe ~10 hours after the patch went up.

Nothing in Zurvan is new. It's not even a new spin on old mechanics. SE has said that they want to make mechanics intuitive and Zurvan mechanics couldn't be any more obvious. The NM mode even served you everything on a platter before removing indicators in EX.

Common AoE baiting. Played out arena shrinking. Common flaming outer ring arena. Get-behind-the-boss mechanic we've seen in Ravana EX, Sophia EX. Rehashed T11 tether mechanics. Orange / Blue seal mechanic that's in Gubal HM. Standard prey marker mechanic. Common unmarked in / out AoEs. Gaze. Charge mechanic we've seen in Ifrit EX, Ravana EX, Thordan EX, etc. Marker based AoE spread mechanic we've seen in Ravana EX, Thordan EX, Sephirot EX, etc. Standard stack marker mechanic. The only thing that's slightly different is the knockback and charge mechanic and we've still seen it before with things like T10, Thordan EX, Sophia EX.

When SE was talking about tuning Zurvan to be a bit harder due to how a lot more people have cleared A12S, I was thinking it would be a harder fight. IMO it's one of the easiest EX trials we've ever gotten. Day 1 people were already solo-tanking and solo-healing it. I think there is already a 7 warrior Zurvan video out there and it's not even 3 days old.

And then I come here and read about how people are still failing. Reading through this thread I had a hand plastered to my face. I'm not surprised because that's how bad the general player-base is (especially NA) but it's just disheartening that SE has done nothing but condone this ineptitude. Why is Zurvan EX not gated behind Sephirot EX and Sophia EX? Why was the Warring Triad not gated by at least Ravana EX? I get the idea of keeping the game accessible but everything but Alexander is already incredibly accessible. At a certain point, you need to actually ask something of your players and expect them to deliver. At some point you have to ask your players to invest themselves into your game to get what they want. At some point, you need to create a better system to differentiate progression because players are either too morally deprived or blind to handle it themselves.

This thread is just sad.

[Neiker]

This is my third account. L2read. I'm very kind in game, never call anyone out, don't act elitist, don't quit before it's over. This is a discussion forum, and I'm expressing my opinion saying that I have a hard time progressing since lots of people in this game care more about how their haircut matches their armor than to improve their game knowledge and reactions.

Soo, everytime you start playing, you buy the whole game+ expansion? I would stop that if i where you, you are not only wasting money, but also veteran rewards.

And whats the problem with that? Its their game, they play how they want...But never in my time here, has anyone ever told me they wher eunnable to progress because of other people.

Maybe if you joined an FC thats not 'too casul' for you, then you might 'progress'..you ar eliteraly the first person i've ever seen in any mmorpg that blames your lack of 'progress' on others.

[DinahDemiurge]

thanks again for the discussion everyone. I have calmed down since I made this thread 24 hours ago, and do regret some of the harsh tone. My passion and frustration come from love of this game, I hope you all understand that. I want it to succeed, and even though it is my opinion, gating the newest ex primals behind at least the 2 previous ex primals should be a thing, or at the very least, creators of party finder listings should be able to manually stipulate requirements such as this. Thanks again.