If we are going to have a jump potion can we put Stone Sky Sea on steroids?

[OranKells]

No. There needs to be a floor of skill you should have to reach before you can do SOME content. It is not fair to me or the other members of the party that we cannot reach the DPS check on story mode Alexander because the Duty Finder gave us a player that -despite not having the newbie bonus- cannot keep BotD/GL/Huton up, Doesn't know what Fire 3 is, Never got provoke from gladiator, keeps Foe up without any mages in the group, Et al.



Let me be clear I am not unfriendly to new players. I do hangout in the novice network and I try to be helpful when I can be. And I believe encouraging players to up their game and show some level of proficiency would make it easier for mid core players who do not have time the time or energy to commit to a static meeting 4-5 nights a week to clear savage content.

[Laerune]

I understand where you are comming from OP, but the bad players are already here, the Jump Potion, will bring both players that dont care about their preformance, but it will also bring in players who do care. As the game is right now, a bad player can not and will not (unless carried and even that will be a challenge) complete an Savage content. For all the other content, there is always the option to kick them out or play with those that you know will not underpreform.

[SDaemon]

Maybe a WoW proving grounds thing? Get silver or up to do Savage? Bronze to queue for Expert roulette?

I see this frequently now. WoW's Proving Grounds was a failure. The WoW community's general consensus is that it didn't weed out, filter or educate anyone on their classes/roles or prepare them for tougher content. The developers ultimately removed the requirement in Legion.

[Ariane]

I see this frequently now. Wow's Proving Grounds was a failure. The WoW community's general consensus is that it didn't weed out, filter or educate anyone on their classes/roles or prepare them for tougher content. The developers ultimately removed the requirement in Legion.

They removed the requirement because mythic is the old heroic difficulty, and mythic is for premade only. People making premade parties can already filter out what they don't want, so there wasn't a point anymore.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yet the system he suggests comes from a MMO 10 times as successful as ffxiv?

When does WoW gate its content behind arbitrarily dummy smacking like Stone Sky Sea? Proving Grounds is for people who use a skip potion. The OP mentioned gating things like Expert dungeons hence what I was referring to.

[SDaemon]

They removed the requirement because mythic is the old heroic difficulty, and mythic is for premade only. People making premade parties can already filter out what they don't want, so there wasn't a point anymore.

You can filter out based on item level, but no filter in the group finder can judge a player's skills at a glance. The only course of action players have is to base things on item level and achievements and if their skills are not up to par they remove players from the group which has always been true, Legion didn't change that.

[OranKells]

well. No. Not exactly. They are still there but in WoW's latest expansion the challenges it presented are no longer relevant and the requirements to complete them have been removed BUT they are actually still there if you wanted to check them out. They do have other things now like mythic keystones and stuff with their relic weapons that can act as skill checks even if they aren't very good ones.

And you are totally correct it did not work all that well and reviews were at best mixed, but you know what it was SOMETHING. I still think its a good idea. It needs refinement and constant maintenance but there HAS to be some way beyond item Level to show proficiency

[Reinha]

As a former WoW player I'd like to clarify that Proving Grounds never prevented anyone who didn't pass it from doing content. You could always go to the dungeon with a premade group. Silver proving grounds was no harder than some job quests and it gated the equivalent of our Expert dungeons. In a way we have the same filtering right now, but as I understand it the jump potion will bypass the need to do job quests.

When people are prevented from trying content that they paid for, even if it's because of their own skill cap, they tend to get frustrated and quit. The key to balance here is making everything that gates other content very easy or doable in a premade, but still allowing player filtering in the harder modes.

I am not opposed to more filtering options in the harder modes but I don't feel that easy content like 60/Expert roulette need it. Dungeons are a filter in itself since new players can't afford crafted gear and have to get tomes somehow. Moreover I'm in favor of social filters (i.e. achievements, titles or the lack of a first timer bonus) as opposed to hard filters/performance gates enforced by the game. The latter is the kind that makes things feel impossible and frustrating after enough failure, the former on the other hand encourages making friends who would look past the lack of such feats.

[JunseiKei]

~snip~

The point of SSS is to see if you can clear the fight by meeting a certain amount of DPS within a time frame. It's literally pass or fail. There's no reason to add grades to 'you did it' or 'pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttHAHAHAHA.' The current mindset of players that are bad is mostly in the direction of turning hostile the moment you offer advice. There was a poll a while back, too, where someone asked, "If the game requires you to get better, will you?" A disappointingly high number said they'd quit (it was majority). I'd like to think there was trolling, but even considering, that's still fairly shocking.

Sad to say, but I'd rather continually have this "lowered bar" for content than the game turn into a niche with a cult following.

However, Stormblood is going to see combat revamped, so maybe it'll be easier for people to actually do things. If it's easier to play, hopefully that will mean content could turn into something more engaging and fulfilling.

[Canadane]

The time we did have a bar to pass, Steps of Faith, it was nerfed to the ground. It's a laughable shell of what it once was.
They're not going to gate anyone from stuff or seems. Just take it as part of the games difficulty - carrying players.