If we are going to have a jump potion can we put Stone Sky Sea on steroids?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Where did I say they would get good?

I said I want there to be a bar to pass.

Maybe a WoW proving grounds thing? Get silver or up to do Savage? Bronze to queue for Expert roulette?

You are neglecting the fact Square Enix is a business. Restrictions such as these only serve to alienate players, all of whom pay a sub and might be less inclined to continue doing so if they are frequently gated behind "git gud" walls. That is partly why content is gated through ilvl. It masks the idea you aren't good enough yet by offering an easily obtainable improvement. Unfortunately, those ilvl restrictions haven't been steep enough in Heavensward, thus people have no real reason to improve.

Put another way, you want the actual content to push people not an arbitrarily wall. Think of it like mass pulls. I'm perfectly happy to wipe even to just 3-4 mobs if the damage is high enough we just couldn't handle it. On the other hand, I am quickly bored when the devs place random gates to limit those pulls (looking at you Hullbreaker hard). Why? The first example has me struggling at a skill based level while the second is the developers basically telling "you can't do this because reasons."

[ShinMetsu]

You are neglecting the fact Square Enix is a business. Restrictions such as these only serve to alienate players, all of whom pay a sub and might be less inclined to continue doing so if they are frequently gated behind "git gud" walls.

Yet the system he suggests comes from a MMO 10 times as successful as ffxiv?

[OranKells]

as your suggestion bars them from content

Oh no no. Not just them. Everyone. I don't think anyone should be exempt from showing that they are slightly competent. Really I would only want this for top tier content. Latest Ex Primal/Savage raid stuff. Maybe if you needed something like this to use the Raid Finder it would work better?

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Well we did have Steps of Faith forcing people to "git gud", but people chose to quit. You can see what happened next.

[NinjaTaru72]

Oh no no. Not just them. Everyone. I don't think anyone should be exempt from showing that they are slightly competent. Really I would only want this for top tier content. Latest Ex Primal/Savage raid stuff. Maybe if you needed something like this to use the Raid Finder it would work better?

Yeah but the lazy would just buy a carry to get through it. Just like they have on past content to get gear. They buy the carry, get the good/cool gear and now they are there.

[Krokov]

Could always make the 'skillcheck' reset like, once per week, or biweekly. That you have to do the skill check again to enter the 'hard' duties every week/2weeks/someperiodoftime.
Even if someone does not want to change, once you're used to doing something repeatedly, their habits will change somewhat.
They will also have to 'change' for that short period of time to get past the 'check', even if they'll be reverting later. If the check has to be done repeatedly, eventually they might not even 'go back' even if they wanted to.

Indeed but if you make it too demanding as it were and some might just say screw this and quit the game not all of them and it might even be a short number that but still it most likely could happen/would happen. As a simple thought on the matter just don't play with someone who isn't playing two at a great level that meets your expectations. Just wash your hands of them is at work and play with friends and others who are able to successfully do their chosen job.

[OranKells]

Well the way the proving grounds work is its a solo mission So short of giving out your account info it would be hard to buy a carry. Your ilvl and any stat bonuses are synced down/ignored.

As a Dps you have to get through wave of monsters in a certain time limit.
as a tank/healer you protect/support NPCs as they kill the mobs.

You get a medal grade on your performance and You need at least silver or better to do certain endgame activities.

That's all I want. The MSQ should prepare you for endgame but it does a lousy job of that regardless and thus I'm kind of okay with there being a jump potion.

That being said I think we really just need some test in the game that shows players can do basic rotations and can count past ten without taking off their shoes.

[Lewtskie]

How about making the mentor status worth more than a fancy icon and a chat? If it's the player base that is so in a tizzy about people being people, then the devs establish a system where Mentors are required to take under-performing players through and help them improve. Give them some fancy junk as rewards, but make it so players low on the skill spectrum actually show improvement and mentors show commitment. And if they refuse or avoid putting in the work then revoke the status.

[OranKells]

So I found the Post on the blizzard forums explaining what it does

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...44?page=24#469

We will have Normal and Heroic versions of our max-level dungeons. (Note that we did not have Normal level 90 dungeons in Mists.)

There will be no special requirement other than basic level/ilvl requirements on queuing for Normal dungeons or LFR.

Level-up quest gear will get you into Normal dungeons/scenarios, and Normal dungeon/scenario gear will get you into LFR.

Heroic dungeons will be more challenging than the Normal version (not brutally difficult, mind you -- just somewhat more demanding).

You will need a Silver Proving Grounds medal in a given role in order to queue for random matchmaking for a Heroic Warlords dungeon. If you form a premade group, you can zone in regardless and no such requirement applies.


In the past, challenging content and random matchmaking have often not gone so well together. Relying on item level does nothing to prevent a random group from getting, for example, a tank who may literally have never tanked before. Everyone has to learn somewhere, but we'd rather not have that learning come at other players' expense. One option would be to require a full premade group to do Heroic Dungeons, as we do with Heroic Scenarios, but that would present a very high barrier to entry (finding 4 other people with rigid role requirements is much harder than finding 2 other people with no role requirements). This solution represents a compromise in order to allow the content to see a broader reach via matchmaking, while minimizing frustration.

And yes, we realize that by formally using Proving Grounds as a qualification, it will be incumbent upon us to further refine their balance and mechanics. We'll be updating them for Warlords, and we're confident that we can make them a fair test of baseline ability within a given role.

Now its not entirely analogous. In WoW one class can spec for multiple roles So it is possible to have someone respec to a tank stance and queue for a dungeon literally having never tanked before. But I see still terrible players in roulette or in EX primals or WHATEVER that flat out do not understand the finer points of the job they play and as a result bring down the rest of the party.

[Krokov]

Don't play with those players don't party with them or anything. In a basic sense you can't force players to be good they may only do what is necessary to accomplish whatever it is they're trying to do but you can't force them to play at your expectations at what you want them to. The player has to want to be better at least put forth an effort to do better and how they play the game.