When did this become a trend?

[Cynfael]

Let's not twist a complaint about players being bad into yet another broad-brush complaint about healer DPS.

I've played with plenty of healers who were just as bad without casting even a single attack spell.

[Raminax]

Let's not twist a complaint about players being bad into yet another broad-brush complaint about healer DPS.

I've played with plenty of healers who were just as bad without casting even a single attack spell.

Usually, I find that the "Heal Only!" healers are worse at precasting/preshielding stuff like A11 Prey than the naughty DPS healers.

And they're usually even worse at using Tetragrammaton and its equivalents to save the poor DPS, because that stuff needs to be saved for 'real' emergencies.

[Ghishlain]

A11N is one of the first instances where a healer has to handle a decently tight healer check that will result in a DPS dying outside of Savage and Trial EX content. This is gonna jam up a lot of healers if they don't realize what's going on and at this point there are probably going to be a lot of healers who are either new or alts that don't realize what the Prey mechanic does in the fight. It should probably be noted at the start of A11N that the DPS with Prey will need to spread out and get ready to be healed out the ying-yang to survive.

Also, please do not blame poor performance of a healer on DPS / Cleric Stance. It's a method to optimize as a healer and the pinnacle of healer performance is making full use of their tool kit in an optimal manner.

[Seraphyna]

Also, please do not blame poor performance of a healer on DPS / Cleric Stance. It's a method to optimize as a healer and the pinnacle of healer performance is making full use of their tool kit in an optimal manner.

It is when you have one healer that refuses to get out of CS due to "my deeps". That is absolutely poor performance due to healer DPS and letting the party die because of it. I've had this happen more times than I can count in A11 and 12.

[Accelerating]

It is when you have one healer that refuses to get out of CS due to "my deeps". That is absolutely poor performance due to healer DPS and letting the party die because of it. I've had this happen more times than I can count in A11 and 12.

More than you can count? Wow your healers seem to be very bad then.

[Taika]

It is when you have one healer that refuses to get out of CS due to "my deeps". That is absolutely poor performance due to healer DPS and letting the party die because of it. I've had this happen more times than I can count in A11 and 12.

Of course it's bad play to refuse to heal when you should (and it is also bad play to refuse DPS when you should, although the latter is less likely lead to group members dying). No one has said it isn't. But claiming that promoting effective and skillful healer play through the use of all healer abilitys encourages this sort of bad play is a stretch.

Also, I have personally never seen this happen in A11 or A12 and have run them enough to gear 3 jobs, mostly on DPS classes. Not saying you're lying, but you really seem to have had awful luck.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

But claiming that promoting effective and skillful healer play through the use of all healer abilitys encourages this sort of bad play is a stretch.

The vast majority of healers I've seen that demand the tank sit in tank stance when the extra enmity and mitigation is meaningless have always been CS focused healers, in my experience. Healers that are focused on healing have no difficulties handling mechanics and keeping the party standing, but even with a proper CD rotation, many CS healers I've seen have demanded pointless excessive tank stance uptime.

[Taika]

The vast majority of healers I've seen that demand the tank sit in tank stance when the extra enmity and mitigation is meaningless have always been CS focused healers, in my experience. Healers that are focused on healing have no difficulties handling mechanics and keeping the party standing, but even with a proper CD rotation, many CS healers I've seen have demanded pointless excessive tank stance uptime.

My experience is complete opposite and you can see all the best groups with high DPS healers also having their tanks in DPS stance.

[Ghishlain]

My experience is complete opposite and you can see all the best groups with high DPS healers also having their tanks in DPS stance.

Adding my two cents here that I feel the same, and I've been doing a rather large part of my EXDRs on MCH since it's currently my best ilvl job.

The only recent time where I've seen a wipe was when a tank decided to pull excessively with a SCH who I could wasn't too comfortable with the role given their gear (they were using a PvP book >>; .... ) and how they handled themselves. I was going to make it known to the tank to bugger off if they made a scene after the wipe but they thankfully remained silent and decided to pull less on the follow up.

[technole]

I caused an A12N wipe the other day, as I was so wired to the idea of going into timegate and the other healer went in as well.

For those that don't know in A12 Savage, it requires one healer to go into the SE gate, toss some DoTs, the add does a lot of damage and you have to heal through it until DPS come by to help. So when I do normal I just go in without thinking about it, the other healer never goes in. It frees up a DPS to stay outside to get the kill quicker, and its just a simple tank buster to heal though. Of course, someone made a comment about healers thinking they are DPS, and I immediately thought of this thread. I should have known better, considering the other healer was playing cleric stance chicken. But I explained as-above how wired I was and being used to the savage way, and no one said anything. I mean I have the Alex weapon so I wasn't lying. Next pull we ended up both staying out.

My experience is complete opposite and you can see all the best groups with high DPS healers also having their tanks in DPS stance.

Yep, and the fastest savage kills involve practically no tank stance at-all because of good cool down management by both tanks and healers, freeing up both roles to DPS a lot more.