Naoki Yoshida's Comment in Regard to Jump Potions/Boost Potions

[SDaemon]

And yes, you were asking the purpose of the Jump Potion.

You asked if I was asking its purpose, but you were already affirmed in your belief that I was it seems, however incorrect you are. I will restate that no, I was asking how you determine that this is pay to win. Please don't deflect the true question and kindly answer.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

You asked if I was asking its purpose, but you were already affirmed in your belief that I was it seems, however incorrect you are. I will restate that no, I was asking how you determine that this is pay to win. Please don't deflect the true question and kindly answer.

I could not believe that at this point you, or anyone, had to ask what the advantage of this thing would be. The advantage it provides is the very thing that it provides : skipping content.

As for how to know it is pay to win, that's simple. And, for that matter, it was stated in posts around the one which I answered you with :
It is spending out-of-game currency for some form of in-game advantage.

What the advantage is, is irrelevant. That it is an advantage for someone is what matters. That it is not at end game is also irrelevant.

Changing the scenario changes the outcome. Not everything is as cut and dry as you would like to think.

My point was that at one time, this exact thing (i120/i130 gear, 2.55 completed, level 50) would have been considered Pay to Win. Or are you disputing that?

Nothing has been changed about the jump itself. Change the scenario changes the outcome, sure - but the scenario has not changed (i120/i130 gear, 2.55 done, level 50). The only difference is you are past that. The scenario is not "bring them up to your level" the scenario is, as SE stated, "bring them up to X level". Whether you, I, the game, is at or past X level does not change the scenario.

The scenario, as described be SE though explicitly stated not to be, is still Pay to Gain X Power - which IS Pay to Win.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

What the advantage is, is irrelevant. That it is an advantage for someone is what matters.

If you wanna believe it is, by all means, but the fact remains that, at the end of the day, your so called "Advantage" is a skip through old, outdated, 2 year old, content. The end goal is what matters. In all seriousness, if you want to classify it as "pay-to-win" then go for it, and make sure to tell all your friends so you can all quit. You're making a mound out a mole hill...

[Roth_Trailfinder]

If you wanna believe it is, by all means, but the fact remains that, at the end of the day, your so called "Advantage" is a skip through old, outdated, 2 year old, content. The end goal is what matters. In all seriousness, if you want to classify it as "pay-to-win" then go for it, and make sure to tell all your friends so you can all quit. You're making a mound out a mole hill...

The game does not begin at endgame ... the game does not even begin at the start of the most recent expansion.

You act as though the age of the content is relevant. It is not. Buying X power, whether that level X is at current player peak, or lower, is buying power. Buying power is Pay to Win.

Everything else is an irrelevancy that people want to attach so they can pretend that it is not what it is. If it walks like PTW, if it talks like PTW, it is PTW.

[Nestama]

snip

So it's pointless to argue with you. Got it.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

So it's pointless to argue with you. Got it.

Argue all you like. If you are right, you are right. If you are not, then you are not.

In this instance though, people saying it is not PTW are wrong. Whether it is a good thing for the game, or not, is a completely separate issue. I can see this sort of thing necessary after the 5th or 6th expansion, especially if they keep tying the next expansion to the tail of the previous. I think they need to stop doing THAT, rather than put in the PTW.

I don't think anyone (who stops to think about it) would doubt that untying HW from 2.55 and tying it back at the end of the Praetorium would take a lot of work. I don't think anyone (who stops to think about it) would doubt that untying SB from the end of HW would also be a lot of work. I think, and this is an opinion, that that work would be a better use of their time, even to the point of delaying 3.5 and 3.55 by one and two months (from current schedule) respectively, than making and implementing these PTW potions.

We can argue that all day long. But buying power, buying an advantage, not being PTW? Nope, sorry, circumstances do not matter, scenario does not matter, amount of power bought, or level of power bought to reach, do not matter ... any buying of in-game power or advantage using an out-of-game currency is PTW, no matter how minuscule the power gain percieved by people past that point may be.

[VTXShiva]

I don't think anyone (who stops to think about it) would doubt that untying HW from 2.55 and tying it back at the end of the Praetorium would take a lot of work.
I don't think anyone (who stops to think about it) would doubt that untying SB from the end of HW would also be a lot of work.
I think, and this is an opinion, that that work would be a better use of their time, even to the point of delaying 3.5 and 3.55 by one and two months (from current schedule)

You keep saying 'anyone who stops to think about it' as if nobody except you thought about it in depth. You have a viewpoint sure, but your viewpoint is also incomplete in many respects and you are still choosing to maintain your position (if you stop to think about it) despite knowing very well you don't have a solid ground to stand on either. You're doing mental gymnastics in the favor of maintaining a point, instead of the pursuit of higher knowledge or understanding.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The cash grab is what's bothering me the most. Yoshi p has been disappointing me all throughout HW. So this really doesn't change anything to be honest, go for it.

Yoshi P doesn't get to decide these things. He has to answer to the demands of Square Enix. A prime example of this was Deus Ex, which wasn't originally designed to have any multi-player component or micro-transactions. Square Enix told the dev team they had to implement them. You don't exactly get to say no unless you fancy unemployment.

Argue all you like. If you are right, you are right. If you are not, then you are not.

In this instance though, people saying it is not PTW are wrong. Whether it is a good thing for the game, or not, is a completely separate issue. I can see this sort of thing necessary after the 5th or 6th expansion, especially if they keep tying the next expansion to the tail of the previous. I think they need to stop doing THAT, rather than put in the PTW.

I don't think anyone (who stops to think about it) would doubt that untying HW from 2.55 and tying it back at the end of the Praetorium would take a lot of work. I don't think anyone (who stops to think about it) would doubt that untying SB from the end of HW would also be a lot of work. I think, and this is an opinion, that that work would be a better use of their time, even to the point of delaying 3.5 and 3.55 by one and two months (from current schedule) respectively, than making and implementing these PTW potions.

We can argue that all day long. But buying power, buying an advantage, not being PTW? Nope, sorry, circumstances do not matter, scenario does not matter, amount of power bought, or level of power bought to reach, do not matter ... any buying of in-game power or advantage using an out-of-game currency is PTW, no matter how minuscule the power gain percieved by people past that point may be.

They aren't buying power. Level skipping is not power. I'll reiterate what I said earlier on the subject.

It's the consistency and optimization which determine pay to win. At least, in my opinion.

To give some FFXIV examples. Say our Relic weapon was upgraded each patch cycle and it was definitively BiS. The grind associated will take nearly three months, however you could buy the needed components from the mogstation. This is pay to win because by the time you've grinded it out, the weapon will be invalidated within a few weeks-- making the most optimal solution to always be spending money. Another example would be in Savage, if the Gobdip, Gobtwine and Gobcoat all had their drop rate reduced to 5%... but were made purchasable on the mogstation. You can't farm them per Savage loot rules, thus you have to either pray to the RNG gods or spend money.

It's that consistency and optimization that factor into what is pay to win. You're buying power, and you always have to in order to keep up.

Neither of what I highlighted apply to a level skip. There is no consistent advantage since someone brand new who doesn't skip will inevitably catch up to the person who did as their progression is capped. It isn't optimal because said skipper will be inferior to anyone who has progressed through to 3.55 prior to Stormblood's launch. This fact is made only worse if these potions are bundled into the expansion itself as a freebie. Then it wouldn't be a cost decision, but an entirely subjective one.

[VTXShiva]

Buying power is Pay to Win.

Everything else is an irrelevancy that people want to attach so they can pretend that it is not what it is. If it walks like PTW, if it talks like PTW, it is PTW.

You must be new around the MMO scene i guess; because you don't have a very good grasp or understanding of what P2W means.

There is no "unfair advantage" here that's what the WIN refers to. You skip what? 20 hours of using skills 1-5 in POTD? It doesn't net you prestige, you're not *owning newbs* with your superior level, gear and/or skill.
You are not winning at anything. you'll be at 50 (now) or 60 (expansion) and then have to go through it all to 60/70 like everyone else. You're arguing the *pay* in Pay to Win and are ignoring *win* altogether to make your case.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

You must be new around the MMO scene i guess; because you don't have a very good grasp or understanding of what P2W means.

There is no "unfair advantage" here that's what the WIN refers to. You skip what? 20 hours of using skills 1-5 in POTD? It doesn't net you prestige, you're not *owning newbs* with your superior level, gear and/or skill.
You are not winning at anything. you'll be at 50 (now) or 60 (expansion) and then have to go through it all to 60/70 like everyone else. You're arguing the *pay* in Pay to Win and are ignoring *win* altogether to make your case.

Unfair to who? You? Me?

Or to the sprout who bought the game but does not buy the potion?

It most certainly IS unfair to that poor fellow. But wait! All he has to do is BUY THE POTION!

If it walks like PTW, if it talks like PTW, it is PTW.

If it weren't, no one would be worried about it.