Naoki Yoshida's Comment in Regard to Jump Potions/Boost Potions

[Austherus]

As long as the potions are paid, not free, I could see RMT paying it every once in awhile, but if every new character got one free, you'd start seeing the RMT bots running up to the Jeweled Crozier and popping under the terrain and turning on the spam nonsense in /say by the market board non-stop all day just like we already see in ARR's areas.

They don't have to go to Ishgard to do their thing. Like I said before, they still get in my way all the time.

If RMT is a problem, SE should deal with it, not charge players an extra fee. By your logic SE should also charge for each new character, maybe they should also charge a fee every time you enter a city? Maybe each time you get a load screen? That's not how you fix a problem.

[Seig345]

They don't have to go to Ishgard to do their thing. Like I said before, they still get in my way all the time.

If RMT is a problem, SE should deal with it, not charge players an extra fee. By your logic SE should also charge for each new character, maybe they should also charge a fee every time you enter a city? Maybe each time you get a load screen? That's not how you fix a problem.

No one's saying the pay wall will stop the RMT problem altogether, but free jump potions would easily make it worse for everyone. I feel like you're blowing it a touch out of proportion there; these jump potions are optional items, and will be categorized as such in the cash shop. They're a far cry from anything actually necessary to play the game such as character creation/entering a city/load screen. Yes, the RMT problem should be fixed, but until an actual solution is found to stop it altogether, there's no point in spreading the RMT problem for everyone else in the mean time.

That's not a bad idea, the focus on ARR has always been on having a single, main character. It should be taken in consideration that some players are really into creating alts though, this might not be fair to them.

Thinking it over some more, I could maybe see 1 free jump potion for someone making an alt where they already have a character with a job at the level/MSQ point that the jump potion brings you to. Although I think someone already brought up the potential issue with PVP rankings regarding that. There's definitely multiple scenarios to consider before outright throwing them out there for free in any capacity. The paywall may be inconvenient, but it does at least mitigate some of the potential issues these potions may introduce to the game.

[Austherus]

No one's saying the pay wall will stop the RMT problem altogether, but free jump potions would easily make it worse for everyone. I feel like you're blowing it a touch out of proportion there; these jump potions are optional items, and will be categorized as such in the cash shop. They're a far cry from anything actually necessary to play the game such as character creation/entering a city/load screen. Yes, the RMT problem should be fixed, but until an actual solution is found to stop it altogether, there's no point in spreading the RMT problem for everyone else in the mean time.

Optional is a tricky word (which SE adopted after it was used so much to justify the cash shop on the forums). Is it really optional if your only reason to play the game is to enjoy it with your friend that is two expansions ahead? I don't think it is. It's only optional if you don't care for it personally, like all the endgamers that said (and still say) that glamour is optional.

There are multiple accounts on this thread of new players giving up on the game because of the huge amount of fetch quests and uninteresting dialogue they have to deal with before reaching their friends. For them, it would not be optional.

Them again, you could still say yes, it's optional, they can endure through it or not, and I agree. But that would also make everything else optional, including endgame.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Optional is a tricky word (which SE adopted after it was used so much to justify the cash shop on the forums). Is it really optional if your only reason to play the game is to enjoy it with your friend that is two expansions ahead? I don't think it is. It's only optional if you don't care for it personally, like all the endgamers that said (and still say) that glamour is optional.

There are multiple accounts on this thread of new players giving up on the game because of the huge amount of fetch quests and uninteresting dialogue they have to deal with before reaching their friends. For them, it would not be optional.

Them again, you could still say yes, it's optional, they can endure through it or not, and I agree. But that would also make everything else optional, including endgame.

Optional or not, it is still paying out-of-game money for some kind of in-game advantage over those who do not dole out that money. That makes it Pay To Win. The question of whether or not it is optional is but a red herring, and when you get right down to it, is rather irrelevant.

As someone whose friends fall into the category of "Friends I can't get to play the game because it's too much work to catch up and I have too many things to do to dedicate all my time to helping them", I can't wait to see the Levelling Potions. It might actually breathe life into my dying guild again if the people that took breaks for various other games could come back, pay some money to catch up, and be able to play with everyone again. Yeah, we'll still have to teach them how to play their classes, but with the combat revamp, I suspect we'll all be relearning our jobs in Stormblood to a large degree anyway.

So, your friends only say "want" to play the game with you, but they don't really want to play the game at all.

After all, there's the whole game in the way of playing the game. Either they want to play it, or they do not. It is not sectional (here's the story game, here's endgame) - its all one game.

I understand people's concerns about jump potions, but the game has been out for so long now. I have been trying to get some irl friends to play recently, but convincing them to trek through ARR AND HW just to be ready for the expansion is a huge ask if you have a full time job.

Its not about convincing them to trek through the game, it's about convincing them to PLAY the game. They will get to SB when they get there, whether it is a few weeks before or a few weeks after the expansion launches. What matters is whether or not they have fun going through the game, not whether or not they have caught up with the moving goalpost.

Again, the issue people who are for the potion are using to justify it is that the game is getting in the way of itself. And if that's the case, then those people don't want to play the game at all, Whether they can jump to the expansion or start off fresh.

[Austherus]

Optional or not, it is still paying out-of-game money for some kind of in-game advantage over those who do not dole out that money. That makes it Pay To Win. The question of whether or not it is optional is but a red herring, and when you get right down to it, is rather irrelevant.

That is exactly what I was saying. I'm glad someone agrees.

[Austherus]

So, your friends only say "want" to play the game with you, but they don't really want to play the game at all.

After all, there's the whole game in the way of playing the game. Either they want to play it, or they do not. It is not sectional (here's the story game, here's endgame) - its all one game.

His friend wants to play the game "with him", not a solo experience for weeks/months, which is what old story content is.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

His friend wants to play the game "with him", not a solo experience for weeks/months, which is what old story content is.

As I said - his friend DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY THE GAME. Jumping past content won't change that. There is still a bit of content that he and his friend can do together without a content skipping service. FATEs for one, he can help his friend run dungeons and the story mode primals for another. But no, his friend does not want to do that ... which means he won't be happy running the dungeons or raids or doing the story content for whatever expansion he jumps to.

All in all, saying "there's too much content" is a laughable reason when there are people who have gone through it and complain there's not enough content at endgame!

[Austherus]

As I said - his friend DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY THE GAME. Jumping past content won't change that. There is still a bit of content that he and his friend can do together without a content skipping service. FATEs for one, he can help his friend run dungeons and the story mode primals for another. But no, his friend does not want to do that ... which means he won't be happy running the dungeons or raids or doing the story content for whatever expansion he jumps to.

All in all, saying "there's too much content" is a laughable reason when there are people who have gone through it and complain there's not enough content at endgame!

You are contradicting yourself here: When people complain that "there's not enough content at endgame", they are not talking about story content, but about endgame. I don't see why it is relevant anyway. Most people here would agree that there was way too much filler content on ARR, and luckily for us, Heavensward improved on that.

His friend does want to play the game, but not alone, for months. It's not black and white. Like I said before, it's a business-killing way of thinking.


I enjoyed our conversation, Seig345, but SE tells me I have reached my daily post limit, so I'll reply here before leaving the forums for today:

If this is the case, then the potions only add an option; as you said, a bandaid to an issue. As it stands we have people deciding to not play at all, or to slog it out through the long haul to catch up. I'd say that "alone" part is arguable seeing as friends can tag along for the open world segments of quests, fates, dungeons, etc. When the player is caught up, the only parts they'll be playing with their friends at end game is... open world segments of quests, fates, dungeons, etc. With the potions, we still have people deciding to not play at all or to slog it out, but the potions add an option that will inevitably move some people from the "not play at all" camp over into a subscribing player.

As for it being a bandaid over the issue, then I think you're getting into the argument of where they should be spending their development time. Somehow I don't think we'd see as much new content in expansions and content patches if they also had to spend dev-hours on revamping every piece of older content every time a new piece of content is released. How ever much or little content you think we currently get with content patches, we'd be getting even less if each release meant spending time adjusting everything that came before it as well. Different people naturally play the same MMO for different reasons, but SE's focus for Final Fantasy XIV has been its story, for better or worse.

I agree with your instance on the potion, I just think there's no reason to have to pay for it. That is very apparent when you think about the development time necessary to create FFXIV and the development time necessary to create a single potion with a special function, and them compare their prices.

You are assuming the fix would cost SE a big amount of development time, but that is not true. Handing a free potion to new players (and maybe their alts) would be one way of fixing it. Instead, SE went the bandage way, by restricting access to the potion behind a payment wall. Think about it this way: "A new player buys a flawed game, them buys a fix to the flawed game" (how handy, isn't it?) versus "A new player buys a flawed game that comes with a fix".

[Seig345]

[...]

Them again, you could still say yes, it's optional, they can endure through it or not, and I agree. But that would also make everything else optional, including endgame.

Just because they add an item that makes what you want to do in a game easier/faster does not make it some kind of a mandatory purchase. Since it is entirely possible to pass on the jump potions (once they're added), and accomplish the same ends by a different set of means, it's an option by definition. You can subjectively refuse to see the slower method as an option, but that applies to you, not to the player base as a whole. You're by no means forced to slog through the slow way if you don't want to pay for the shortcut, since playing Final Fantasy XIV at all is also an option in and of itself. Not playing at all may sound extreme, but it also seems a little extreme to see $50 to skip several years worth of content, legitimately, as prohibitive.

[Austherus]

Just because they add an item that makes what you want to do in a game easier/faster does not make it some kind of a mandatory purchase. Since it is entirely possible to pass on the jump potions (once they're added), and accomplish the same ends by a different set of means, it's an option by definition. You can subjectively refuse to see the slower method as an option, but that applies to you, not to the player base as a whole. You're by no means forced to slog through the slow way if you don't want to pay for the shortcut, since playing Final Fantasy XIV at all is also an option in and of itself. Not playing at all may sound extreme, but it also seems a little extreme to see $50 to skip several years worth of content, legitimately, as prohibitive.

Nothing applies to the player base as a whole, the player base is made of different individuals with different needs and views.

Let's be honest here, humans are not machines, subjectivity is intrinsic to us. Each player decides individually what is and what is not an option to them. For many players, going through weeks/months of subpar solo questing is not an option, hence why they leave. If suddenly they can pay to take it out of their way (and the price is ok for them), that is what they are going to do, as the other option for them is leaving.

I don't see how $50 to play with my friends is not prohibitive. If I look at it through the view point of a new player, and imagine myself buying FFXIV to play with someone, once I noticed the options I had: A) Play alone for months B) shell out $50, I would jut say "sorry man, I'm not going through that scam".

SE knows that the constant additions to the story has created a big problem, but they decided to sell a bandage instead of delivering the cure to everyone.


EDIT - Just wanted to comment on this: "You're by no means forced to slog through the slow way if you don't want to pay for the shortcut, since playing Final Fantasy XIV at all is also an option in and of itself" - that is a business-killing way of thinking. I don't think SE wants FFXIV to die, yet.