[DEV REQUEST] Please make the Hellhound Obtainable By More than Just the Top 100 PVP

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So you want the mount to be an award for winning/wolf marks but at the same time believe that'll somehow bring better incentives to PvP? There are already mounts that are gained from winning games, yet they remain rare, adding an additional mount to winning/wolf marks isn't going to change PvP's currents state.

The only reason why instance dungeons and trials aren't on life support is because they are mostly faceroll, multiple roulettes for them, and give far greater rewards. On top of that, new stuff is added for PvE every major patch, so of course the 'new' content will be active until it eventually dies out (or gets on life support) like most content before it.

Overwatch and other successful FPS are focused on PvP from the start, they are like 80-95% PvP oriented and are constantly updated in the PvP areas. Final Fantasy gets minor updates in PvP at random and is barely ever looked upon. Until now that is, because something interesting actually derives from it. This game would need far more attention into PvP for it to ever get off of this supposed life support, not more items for winning x amount so people can quit after.

Entitlement isn't getting overplayed, it's literally the source of most of the complaints.

Yes. That wouldn't be my only adjustment, however I do believe it would help better incentivize PvP. Most of the PvP mounts have been simple reskins, which doesn't help incentivize non-PvP oriented players. The devs refusing to budge on grand company restrictions until recently only further deluded interest. People were queuing for gear and Fenrir pup though, but instead of expanding on this, the devs kept adding new stuff to each new map, effectively destroying all previous modes. If they consistently updated stuff you could purchase with Wolf Marks and better improved PvP as a whole, people would be far more likely to at least try. And that's how you build a community.

And what you just said is incentive. People continuously run dungeons because the rewards are good. Granted, that isn't the only reason. They're simply more entertaining for the majority of players. Frankly, I'd argue the faceroll aspect is actually hurting dungeons, but that's another discussion. What does PvP offer? Nothing. The rewards are self defeating (see above) and little is done to incentivizing non-PvP centric players. That's part of the issue. Games like Overwatch can dedciate the bulk of their updates to PvP partly because the foundation is solid. The Feast was a major update and yet it trickled off and now they're back to throwing mounts and minions in a desperate hope to lull people back. It just isn't going to work. Coincidentally, you aren't given any exclusives for being a good Overwatch or Battlefield 1 player. I could pick up either game now and earn everything veteran players have except promotional crap.

Now if we're going to discuss wholesale changes, I'd do something along the following:

- Scrap and/or merge all PvP exclusive abilities. Button bloat is enough of an issue in PvE Stormblood is purposely doing away with abilities just to avoid it. Adding six new abilities only makes the barrier for entry that much higher, thus pushing people away.
- Create and update stuff obtainable through Wolf Marks. Imagine if say, the cosplay gear in Veteran Rewards had been purchaseable through PvP? How about Umbrites? Or old gear from 50 dungeons so you didn't have to hope RNG liked you? All provide some means of incentivizing players.
- Implement rank depreciation.

Yes, it will need dedicated attention to keep people playing, however you first have to get them in there. A timed exclusive won't do that.

[Nakanishi]

The Feast was a major update and yet it trickled off and now they're back to throwing mounts and minions in a desperate hope to lull people back. It just isn't going to work.

Agreed.

Even if the mounts/minion weren't time exclusive, it still wouldn't reel in people to continue playing PvP after they've got their "reward".

[TiaHariberux3]

The Feast was a major update and yet it trickled off and now they're back to throwing mounts and minions in a desperate hope to lull people back.

Feast ranked rewards were never meant to get new ppl into PvP and it was clear from the start that a mount/minion will be one of the season prizes. Wolf marks are the worst because the fastest way to them is q as heal and afk. PvP Skills are fine most of them have a fair cd I saw top ranked player even click them lol. There are title/mounts for the non pvp focused ppl hmm reskins? Ads? Airship? Incentive for PvEr only works when pvp is the fastest way to get said pve rewards which creates the problem pvp suffered in the past. Getting people into pvp with rewards will only last till the sec those ppl get their reward then just stop they don't aim to learn they don't care about PvP and they never will.

[Synestra]

People were queuing for gear and Fenrir pup though, but instead of expanding on this, the devs kept adding new stuff to each new map, effectively destroying all previous modes.

When it comes to Frontlines i hope they stop doing this in 4.0 as i dont see the logic behind killing your own content, they simply cannot keep adding more and more new maps everytime as soon we will have 20 diffirent modes where only one gets played.... just add lvl brackets lvl50/60 and soon 70 for FL's and make achivments universal across all maps/modes.

[Lambdafish]

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I can mostly get behind all of this. PVP does needs some serious design philosophy adjustments in order to become more successful and streamlined (my suggestion is converting the entirety of frontlines into a random queue and pushing all game modes up to lvl 70, the same should be done with the feast maps too). I still disagree with your point about "timed exclusives" though, they are not designed for people who don't pvp, nor are they designed to incentivise people back into pvp who aren't interested. They are designed for those that pvp competitively and give the ranked mode an actual function with good rewards at the end of it. Think of getting pvp rewards as being the same as getting savage weapons while they are BiS, both are timed (the weapon becomes far less valuable once the next raid tier comes out), and both require effort to get. How would you react if a crafter said "I'm a BiS weapon collector" please provide an alternate (easier) way to get the savage weapon right now? It's a clunky analogy but the point is there.

[Synestra]

(my suggestion is converting the entirety of frontlines into a random queue and pushing all game modes up to lvl 70, the same should be done with the feast maps too)

While it would be nice to choose your favorite FL i think something like this needs to be added as we all know Slaughter would dominate purely because it is just a race who gets most killsteals and this is the reason why its most boring PvP mode i have ever encountered in any MMO(24man is cool tho).

[Bourne_Endeavor]

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See, that isn't quite the same argument. I'm not against rewards being difficult to obtain. In fact, I find it more than a little silly we can unsync extreme primals for easy pony farms. It's the time exclusivity-- or exclusivity, in general-- I dislike. And this isn't unique to PvP. I wouldn't be any less against it if Savage only rewarded mounts to the first fifty clear parties. Perhaps, it's because I come from FPS PvP, where you get absolutely nothing for being ranked among the top, except the satisfaction of being better than other players. Back in the old days of Halo, my only rewards for being better were my rank on the leader boards and earning achievements faster. Basically, I find it a better system to make things difficult to obtain, but always obtainable. At least when we're taking about rewards. I still think the Hellhound was meant to incentivize queues though, if only because the devs' answer to everything when things slow down is mounts, minions or relic step. They're kind of predictable.

I do agree on the Frontlines thing though. Most competitive PvP matchmaking randomizes the maps and/or modes you get to ensure variety. I really don't know why FFXIV doesn't.

Feast ranked rewards were never meant to get new ppl into PvP and it was clear from the start that a mount/minion will be one of the season prizes. Wolf marks are the worst because the fastest way to them is q as heal and afk. PvP Skills are fine most of them have a fair cd I saw top ranked player even click them lol. There are title/mounts for the non pvp focused ppl hmm reskins? Ads? Airship? Incentive for PvEr only works when pvp is the fastest way to get said pve rewards which creates the problem pvp suffered in the past. Getting people into pvp with rewards will only last till the sec those ppl get their reward then just stop they don't aim to learn they don't care about PvP and they never will.

I disagree. As noted above, their answer to reinvigorate content has generally followed a predictable pattern of adding mounts, minions or a relic step to push people back into it. Nonetheless, people who AFK to cheat the system should be punished. That's a failure on the GM's part, not the system itself. And I'll disagree once more. Putting aside ability bloat already being an issue in PvE. The whole point is to lessen the barrier for entry. The larger the obstacle to place in front of players, the less desirable that content becomes. Asking them to learn an additional six abilities and weave them into the 20+ they already have, makes it that much more a frustrating task. WoW, Blade & Soul and Black Desert all have fairly strong PvP because its fairly simplistic. The latter two have other issues to be certain, but when it comes to easing players into the mechanics of PvP. They accomplish it fairly well. FFXIV doesn't. And that's one of the reasons it isn't popular.

[Nirokun]

I disagree. As noted above, their answer to reinvigorate content has generally followed a predictable pattern of adding mounts, minions or a relic step to push people back into it. Nonetheless, people who AFK to cheat the system should be punished. That's a failure on the GM's part, not the system itself. And I'll disagree once more. Putting aside ability bloat already being an issue in PvE. The whole point is to lessen the barrier for entry. The larger the obstacle to place in front of players, the less desirable that content becomes. Asking them to learn an additional six abilities and weave them into the 20+ they already have, makes it that much more a frustrating task. WoW, Blade & Soul and Black Desert all have fairly strong PvP because its fairly simplistic. The latter two have other issues to be certain, but when it comes to easing players into the mechanics of PvP. They accomplish it fairly well. FFXIV doesn't. And that's one of the reasons it isn't popular.

I got started with PVP because there were summoner skills I didn't have yet (at the time, none of the skills were unlocked so you had to rank up and choose what to unlock). I figured that during a patch lull I could try out PVP and see what Wither and Misty Veil were about (or even what they looked like, because you can't use PVP skills outside of PVP areas/the pier). I fell into it after that. I avoided Wolves' Den because I didn't know what I was doing (but I youtube'd people doing hectic 4v4 matches). So off to frontlines I went when Slaughter came out, and relished each and every Bane I used (even before the spread count was unlocked!) and was exposed to everything that PVP was about, the skills, the strategies, the individual and group efforts. I was ready when the Feast came out, armed with a foundation of understanding, how my job worked in PVP, and how other jobs worked and what their PVP skills looked like and how they worked.

I say all this to say, there is a mode to ease you into PVP, there are rewards for playing PVP. That's frontlines. Then there's the Feast, the big brother of the Wolves' Den (now called The Fold). I was too afraid to join the Wolves' Den in the beginning, but after struggling through so many matches and getting my ADS (I always said Primal Adders is PVP hard mode) I felt ready to join the Feast. Was it different? Yes, absolutely. But I learned to adjust, what I could apply from my time in Slaughter/Seal Rock, and what I couldn't. What was new and WHO was new, because I could see their names and recognize them as individual players with different playstyles.

I managed to place in the top 100 in season 1 on Primal. I definitely feel like the Feast is all about skill and knowing the "who's who", adapting strategies based on enemy playstyle and coordination. This reflects clearly on the reward structure, to acknowledge these players based on merit and season. The rewards structure should stay this way, with exclusive rewards based on the season, to have recognizable accomplishments within the PVP community. Everyone who actually plays PVP and pays attention learns the players who stick out for being amazing at what they do, because you have matches with/against them and you notice the difference. I have no problem acknowledging that someone above me on the leaderboard played better than me on any particular season. I in no way feel slighted because I'm not rocking their trophies, they've earned it. I do, however, have a problem with people asking for trophies for competitions they neither won, nor participated in. It just doesn't make any sense.

These kinds of rewards offer distinction, and making them widely available (outside of the seasonal competitions) muddies that. Perhaps in FPS (Idk, I'm terrible at aiming) there aren't rewards, but in the FGC (fighting game community) there are tournaments with prizes (often money). Not having a reward for a competition is odd, to me. As far as simplicity in combat, I think it's preference. I prefer a design with depth, enough options to allow for that feeling of freedom. Too few, and it feels rigid (see Super Smash Bros Melee compared to Super Smash Bros Brawl).

[TiaHariberux3]

I disagree. As noted above, their answer to reinvigorate content has generally followed a predictable pattern of adding mounts, minions or a relic step to push people back into it. Nonetheless, people who AFK to cheat the system should be punished.

That may be true but the top100 mount wasnt meant to give ppl a reason to q atleast not new players. Do you really think they make a mount to get new ppl and lock it behind top100 xD. There is just not much they can reward u with (Glamour gear, mounts, minion, weapon) thats almost all they can put in as reward tbh.