Your reaction if SE adds in a Passive Ability to Mobs...

[Alleo]

I disagree. Most jobs literally mash one button for optimum AoE, and that can be easily macrod. Hell, I use a macro that spams Spread shot so I can browse the forums when mass pull happens, only pausing between salvos to use quick reload or hot shot. With Bishop out, that's literally all I need to do for maximum efficiency.

I play a summoner, I definitely have more than one button to smash. Big pulls are often the place I like the most, not only do I know that I have to be good there to get them all down fast, so the healer does not run out of MP or the tank dies and I have lots of abilities that work the best the more monster I can hit with it. I kinda wonder if you are truly doing your optimum DPS with that macro.

@Claire_Pendragon: I do believe that speed runs needs more skills. I had tanks that wanted to speed run but had no idea how to use their buffs..I never healed so much in my life..if the same tank will only pull 2 or 3 monsters he will probably barely loose HP. If I want to DPS as a healer and someone pulls big, I need way better skill to handle both DPS and heal without anyone dying. If I am in a dungeon with my summoner main I will hit way more buttons if we pull big and thus more monster than pulling small or even just one monster..As a monk I also have to not only be in the right position for one monster but I need to aim right to hit the other monsters with my aoe. As a tank its way easier to hold the aggro of one monster than to hold it over a lot. Lets not forget that some people dont want to do speed runs because they fear that they cant do it. But why would that be the case if its needs less skill?

I am for a more challenging experience in dungeons. But I am not really sure if the OPs solution would be a "challenge" or just annoying. How about less trash mobs but make those that are left dangerous? You can even give those some nice passive buffs. Or make the bosses harder. Nothing that will mean 1 mistake = wipe, but most bosses are so obvious right now.

[Verius_Nox]

So right now, people can either pull one group at a time or 2-3 groups at a time before hitting a door. People have choices on how they want to run the dungeon, and adding that is going to make one of those options incredibly difficult so people are indirectly forced to pull one group at a time.

Gross.

[Khalithar]

I thought on this topic a bit more and I was reminded of what they did in WoW's Cataclysm expansion so I decided to expand on my previous post in this topic. In the expansion prior to that (Wrath of the Lich King), a moderately geared tank could pull an entire dungeon in roughly 2-3 trash pulls and by the end of it with the right gear I could pull an entire dungeon's worth of trash in 1-2 pulls and be in absolutely no danger of dying whatsoever. 8-10 minute dungeon runs were quite entertaining. In Cataclysm they dialed it back and made dungeons difficult again. They made individual enemies more dangerous, upped their damage, added priority targets that needed to be controlled and/or killed immediately, and spaced the pulls in such a way where in a few places you had to be careful since 2 groups of enemies meant death.

However, as you geared up through the raid content you sort of "graduated" out of needing to use crowd control and could just pump raw damage and aoe in to a group and even pull 2-3 groups at a time. I would be perfectly fine with the Cataclysm model, make the new dungeons legitimately challenging and dangerous but over time gearing up would make it easier to the point that once you did have that gear, you wouldn't need to be as careful. It's an interesting feeling when you can say "wow, I remember when this stuff would destroy me if I wasn't careful. I've really gotten stronger gearing up over time!"

[Voltyblast]

Uhm, what about making actual interesting encounters and trash mobs, rather than add a pointless passive to make them stronger? Things like, an enemy that summons more adds and has to be stopped/stunned, an Aoe that sticks and tank must move out, or an invulnerable mob that you can only attack after you kill minions?

I dunno, just giving my two cents...

[Rivxkobe]

I disagree. Most jobs literally mash one button for optimum AoE, and that can be easily macrod. Hell, I use a macro that spams Spread shot so I can browse the forums when mass pull happens, only pausing between salvos to use quick reload or hot shot. With Bishop out, that's literally all I need to do for maximum efficiency.

You have a warped, and poor, understanding about what "efficient" means.

What you posted isn't efficient. Its lazy and "good enough".

[LineageRazor]

While this thread has devolved into yet another large pulls vs small pulls debate, to address the initial poster, if SE were to introduce such a mechanic, I would be both confused and irritated.

Confused, because a passive boost of that kind would essentially make every jobs' aoe arsenal a complete waste - there'd never be a good time to use it. Small pulls would become the norm, and it's rarely worthwhile from a damage and TP usage standpoint to use aoes on a group of three mobs or less. So, if we can't pull big, and are never fighting more than a couple mobs at once, why have aoe abilities at all?

I'd be irritated, both because dungeons would take a little bit longer, and also because they would be incredibly boring. Large pulls are the only way a tank can get any enjoyment after the tenth or so time running the same dungeon over and over again; the only time they feel even modestly challenged.

[HaelseMikiro]

Passive abilities on enemies would be horrible. Maybe 1 dungeon, could have some trash mobs with auras as a gimmick that we'd work with, but blanketing all dungeons mobs with a speed pull destroyer just wouldn't be fun, and it would take what tiny challenge dungeon mobs do present (as groups of 6-12) and make it irrelevant. If you actually look at Gubal HM and Natalan, these were obviously designed with speed running in mind by the devs. Large rocks to put vuln on any target they land on for Natalan, and the boogeys at the start of Gubal literally CHALLENGING you to keep up with them. I'd say the devs are well aware of how the community feels about speedruns and the current experts are evidence of their approval.

Uhm, what about making actual interesting encounters and trash mobs.........like, an enemy that summons more adds and has to be stopped/stunned, an Aoe that sticks and tank must move out, or an invulnerable mob that you can only attack after you kill minions?

These are all great ideas, and I know 2 of them have already been used (summons in AK normal, and Invuln mobs in Lost City with the white magic crystals). SE seems to try at least putting new gimmicks in every now and then, but they have to be especially careful with excessive recycling too Although my favorite gimmick is the dungeon-that-isn't-a-tunnel. Haven't seen that one in a while QQ

[JunseiKei]

Uhm, what about making actual interesting encounters and trash mobs, rather than add a pointless passive to make them stronger? Things like, an enemy that summons more adds and has to be stopped/stunned, an Aoe that sticks and tank must move out, or an invulnerable mob that you can only attack after you kill minions?

Heavily reminded for the first boss in Pharos Sirius. Summons adds that give you a stacking buff that will make you explode that causes a vulnerability up debuff. Boss summons AoEs on the floor that cover half of the arena that also give that stacking buff. Continues to spawn same adds, increasing in number up to a point (I think; maybe it kept increasing by one or two) and eventually adding in an AoE attack from the boss itself that covered half of the arena.

Then I'm also reminded of Saint Mocianne's Arboretum and many adds had some mechanics that needed to be stunned or dealt with immediately. Too bad they were placed next to a boss's entrance that went down a slope and locked them out.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Neither of which were very popular. Pharos had to get nerfed because people whined about having to deal with mechanics, and Arboretum, while beautiful, was also largely hated. As much as I'd adore having fun actually dangerous dungeons, I know it'll never happen with the speedrun crowd calling the shots.

[Leigaon]

I think you and Brannigan have something decent between the two of you. Definitely would need to reduce the amount of mobs down the line to the boss.

I'm good with having it slow and steady if needed. If I have to push harder as a job then it's exciting to me. Then again, I guess you'd upset those who want to get in and done just because they're already playing too much, burnt out and complain that things are too easy while refusing to want something too hard...Steps is a good reason as to why we can't have nice things. Or the Bee's..I miss them.

Heavily reminded for the first boss in Pharos Sirius...

That was fun, and it still kills people time to time. Some would rather die multiple times and burn it than deal with the adds. Though that's part because of how the game has raised us.

...Make the dungeons themselves less dull, and you might not have any issue in the first place, especially if it requires fewer runs (no additional minutes) spent in dungeons per week...

I think that would be a fair compromise, by adding in things that makes a run more difficult for a set of users and in return, reducing the average dungeon time. Of course the reward could be more tomes to cap weekly. Though I think that it's easy enough as it is now, but others will strongly disagree. Still there has to be something from both ends..give and take. The bigger downside now though is making the content that others don't find dull and repetitive. Sooner or later it is going to get there, with all the dungeons and content floating around to make things 100% randomized, might be more negative than positive. There's really not a single answer out there that would make each dungeon brand spanking new each time, but instead of randomization through one single dungeon, you can get your fill through having to do a random dungeon with small randomized encounters.

...Oddly enough, I don't really recall the speedrunners calling for the nerfs so much as the people that simply couldn't handle the mechanics. Mostly, the speedrunners complain about there being gates and forced stops or them having to deal with people that simply don't want to even try to pick up the pace a little more.

From what I remember it was both points what you said, there was also a lack of understanding from both ends. For example, most of the new dungeons you'd have to slow down a tad with until the iLV made you into Super Kami Dende. After a bit it was business as usual. Though people got so use to doing the big pulls, if someone didn't have the gear for it..it didn't matter..they just ran. Causing a bad time. For Pharos, when they'd pull enough mobs and slowly kill..that banish..hurt. Now, I don't know if I even see it. On the other hand, the ones who didn't pick up the pace wouldn't try to meet in the middle. Maybe in the end it's just the people that need to be patched...

I'm not a speed runner, I don't play enough to where I go "If I don't cap out tomes this week I'm going to fight a panda..with my car." and get evil. There's a point where you can go "I could do my thing and let this run go on longer or help out with the speed run. Or kill them...kill them all." in which case the minion on my characters shoulder that looks like a deformed version of Chairry from pee-wees playhouse with the voice of Harvey Fierstein makes the decisions.