i am not mass pull tank

[Emstidor]

All you people that downplay the difference in time between runs "if the dps is good" are missing the point. If a geared tank can't be bothered, whether through fear or laziness to play their job well enough to handle more than a single pack at a time (when they clearly have the potential to), then why should I as a dps be expected to put more effort into the dungeon than them?

If I get a good tank and healer who pull appropriately, then I'm inspired in turn to play seriously. I'll use cooldowns and the appropriate weapon skills and burn down mobs as fast as I can.

If my tank isn't gonna challenge himself, I won't either. I'll probably tune out, carry on a conversation in FC chat, and 1.2.3 instead. Fair is fair.

[BubblyBoar]

I play all roles in dungeons. I have a tank, healer, melee, and ranged class all at 60. On all of them I prefer big large pulls. If I'm tanking, I pull everything in a room. I usually check to make sure people are geared somewhat decent before I do tho. I've learned that alot of people aren't bad or uncomfortable, but lazy. Many Melees don't "feel" like using their TP to AoE because they don't want to adjust to the TP management. Many healers dont feel like slapping on a barrier or regen and afking. People dont "feel" like using their buffs on trash pulls even tho they'll be up by the boss.

There's a whole host of reasons. What I do is just minimalize the time between pulls if a party cant handle large ones. I'll stun the last mob or drag it with me to the next pull while the DPS finish it off. Once the rhythm is going and they get off their butts, I start the big pulls.

I don't raid or anything like that. I'm one of those filthy casuals that enjoys gold saucer and derping around with my friends in game. However, I still actually try, which many do now. Is it everyone? No, but this is usually the case in my experience.

[Frowny]

However, I still actually try, which many do now.

With how many that are opposed to making expert dungeons not braindead easy, I'd argue otherwise.

I don't pull big as a tank as I'm not comfortable. But I also don't really use my tank often. If there are certain expectations of me in respect to my main, I'd try to meet them.

[Aamalthea]

..snip...

Thank you for this. This is one of the reasons why I gave up tanking. Other reasons being people (specifically bards, sorry bards) who would mass pull whatever they wanted and get mad that I couldn't pick it up fast enough.

[Zhao]

Honestly, the number of people willing to be total asshats in this thread is astounding.
No wonder no one wants to tank.

Now I'm curious, would everyone find a "standardized 30 min run" acceptable if there were enough tanks to pop a queue in a relatively short time?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

With how many that are opposed to making expert dungeons not braindead easy, I'd argue otherwise.

I don't pull big as a tank as I'm not comfortable. But I also don't really use my tank often. If there are certain expectations of me in respect to my main, I'd try to meet them.

As someone who used to be uncomfortable. Try not to worry too much about big pulls. Your defensive cooldowns will handle the incoming damage. Usually rotating through them is enough, but I'll occasionally pop Shadowskin + Convalescence/Foresight if I feel my health dropping a bit too fast. Worse case scenario, you still have your immunity. You won't need it on bosses. So may as well make use of it. If a mob does aggro off to the DPS, it isn't a big deal. I actually pull off tanks frequently on Dragoon since I'm ilvl 260. They hit so weak, Second Wind will handle it, xD

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

"efficiency is fun.".

I honestly hate this mindset personally. I suppose I can see why, but to me, this mentality is one that only belongs at an RL job. Course, when I tank I mass pull because that's what's expected of me, but I find myself zoning out a lot more during a mass pull then I do doing things normally. Four minutes extra in a run is no bother for me, so long as I get the rewards at the end. Main reason I use my weakest geared dps.

Pretty much this. I dont mind taking the 30m hit cuz I figure I landed on that 1 out of 10 chance of landing a party where the tank wont mass pull.

Please do. I'll be laughing with my 20 minute run while you're waiting on the first ten minutes of your penalty to drop.

Perhaps when you did big pulls your dps kept doing single target rotations, because what you're saying is mathematically impossible, at this point this isn't about anecdotes, skills have a declared potency and you multiply AoE skills potency by the number of mobs it's hitting, so mathematically you're doing more damage in a big pull than in a single pull, but you don't take twice as long to kill them.

Melee dps can't sustain AoE dps long, but they can absolutely wreck face in seconds with small pulls. Had a tank do a large pull with 2 monks, took 4 minutes. Did small pulls next, and each of the packs died in about 15-20 seconds. With running between pulls, all 4 packs took about 2 minutes to kill, when pulling all 4 together would've cost an easy 6. Melee just doesn't have the tools to sustain real AlE.

[Mugiawara]

Today I did Gulbal NM with all 60's and I was a slightly undergeared tank, said I was new to the dungeons and would be pulling small.
SMN: "Feel free to do large pulls because yada yada AOE." Did what he wanted RIGHT after I said I wanted to to go slow,
starts DPSing crap and removing my aggro because he was dpsing ONE mob. He pulled a mob every now and then too.
I did it because I'm scared of being yelled at and even when I did do it, he still went ahead so screw it, never again.
I got to 60 PLD and that's probably it for me, you DPS people just are impatient.

EDIT: I wanna add the story from my post in page 1.
I was doing Dusk Vigil with a friend, a random healer and DPS. I was incredibly scared to tank...
so I told them please let me mob a little. Said 'Friend" pulls for me when I asked him to help me learn the dungeon
and I was so irritated and stressed I just left because DPS wouldn't listen. Needless to say, I'm not that jerks friend anymore.
I did it again alone, and told them again to please be patient and they were very kind so I gained confidence.

Or you know what ya'll could do? Not pressure the living hell out of tanks?
SMN Dude had not a single tank leveld. IMO, tanking is just too damn stressful and when a TANK SAYS they are NEW to the dungeon
and wanted to get a feel for it, then don't damn pressure them. I hate tanking and that's why. If you wanna pace
the dungeon, then you tank. That's what I get sick of. So God bless you tanks, you have the worst job with people
up your behind wanting to do everything their way. So you know what? Those who are screaming at the tanks to do this
that this that is why some people don't wanna tank. When I learn the dungeon, I'll be all for full force, but until then
sorry, please go at my pace or leave.
Sorry for the rant but Jesus Christ.

[Kosme]

I honestly hate this mindset personally. I suppose I can see why, but to me, this mentality is one that only belongs at an RL job.

I get that that's your opinion, but striving to be good at a hobby (some level of efficiency being a part of that) is something in which a great number of people take pleasure. I'm glad that my day job isn't the only thing at which I excel.

I don't even aim to be the "best", whatever that means in a game like this. There are plenty of areas where my game is lacking in XIV, yet compared to what I see from so many other players, I realize that my contribution to most groups is quite substantial. I enjoy knowing that my numbers are high, I rarely ever die to silly stuff, and that I'm an asset to the team I'm on. That idea is where much of my fun comes from.

Please do. I'll be laughing with my 20 minute run while you're waiting on the first ten minutes of your penalty to drop.

I know this one wasn't directed at me, but I just wanted to reiterate what's been brought up before in this thread. You can laugh, but the person who leaves and takes a 30 minute penalty on purpose probably doesn't feel put off at all.

Many would rather experience the style of play that lends itself to the quicker 15 minute or so runs, rather than 20+ minutes of slow pulls, small pulls, weak DPS, etc. In some cases it's less about the time taken, and more about the amount of fun had in that timeframe. Everyone plays for [their own style of] fun, yeah? So I'll go do something that's more worth my time in those 30 minutes, and you'll (hopefully) have an adequate replacement in no time. A win for both parties.

Melee dps can't sustain AoE dps long...

The sentiment of this paragraph feels like an early 2.0 mentality that melee DPS can't AOE very well in dungeons. I'm surprised that more than 1 post in this thread has even brought it up.

Small pulls, mass pulls, melee DPS can and do excel if they're geared decently and know what they're doing. On paper, BLM and SMN are better, but it doesn't mean that a party of 2 melee DPS can't wreck entire dungeons with similar quickness and efficiency relative to mages. Chances are, if the melee are struggling in your party they're either undergeared, unfamiliar, or just not very good. Perhaps that's the norm though? I dunno.

Low level dungeons where melee don't have all their AOE skills yet, and that one big pull you sometimes see in Gubal HM after the 2nd boss are the only times I'd say that melee have a hard time with AOE and/or TP management.

[AutoWhit]

I don't care if you speed pull or not I only ask a few simple things:

1: as a DRG my aoe's are limited due to high TP costs and long(ish) Invigorate CD. Unless there's a BRD in the group don't expect large pulls to go down fast without a strong aoe job. Be mindful of that.

2: if you ARE going to pull large groups, and we have decent aoe and the TP/MP regen songs to use, do NOT run ahead and pull the next group until the 1st group is all dead. You screw up dps rotations and it's annoying when something is half dead but you can't kill it because it's all of a sudden running off chasing the tank.

3: if you are speed running at least slow down, stop, and pay attention to the rest of the party's TP/MP before starting a boss fight. I have seen tanks sprint through dungeons and be so far ahead of the rest of the group, not only do we almost miss the fight, but people are low on MP and TP when we finally get there.....this doesn't help kill the boss any faster.