i am not mass pull tank

[SpookyGhost]

For me with scorn on a 25 second cool down , I would much rather only pull 6 to 8 adds at a time with a pali I just dont feell effective even using my cool downs , I feel good about them on the extreme primals Ive done great defense on bosses , but I just dont like flash I have used it done my combos and just have seen adds just walk right past me .

This is called "personal DPS". However there's this other thing called "group DPS". While your pDPS will go down by pulling more (b/c slightly more Flash), the gDPS will go up (b/c more AOE from everyone). What this means is that regardless of tank choice, it's always better to pull big.

e: Sorry maybe I've misunderstood this. CoS works on any mob hit, so the more you pull the more damage you'll get out of it. I thiiiink what you're saying is that Flash isn't enough to keep hate? Or you're missing targets? In which case this could either be a problem w/ your weapon or your aim, because Flash is pretty generous with what it hits. Your defensive CDs are also really effective on big pulls, Bulwark pretty much only shines on big trash pulls, Hallowed means you don't need to be healed, Rampart/Sentinel both give you flat reductions in damage, Awareness even gets use since you have a higher chance of being crit. It's mainly just about trying, and trying again, until you get it right.

I see. This is really discouraging.

You don't need to worry about pulling big until 50~60, and only with appropriate gear. If you don't feel comfortable doing big pulls 'til you're 60 w/ decent gear + wep no one will really hold it against you. But if you feel confident in pulling more as you level up then you'll have an easier time when you reach 60.

[Paladinleeds]

I've got ADHD myself (as well as autism, making communication a royal farce for me), have a decently geared paladin. Sure, I drop aggro every now and then, and I hate failure, but you don't have to worry, it isn't as difficult as you make it. If you explain you aren't comfortable doing mass pulls due to disability (this is what ADHD is classed as), most DF groups are very accomodating and will work with you. Don't let the constant "You must mass pull or you should uninstall and hang your head in shame and never touch a game again" badgering going on in this thread get you down, most people are much more forgiving than this forum makes you believe. That being said, work your way up slowly as some people have suggested, that was how I approached it and now I'm generally doing full scale pulls from blockade to blockade. You'll find you get the hang of it in time. Just don't beat yourself up over a mistake.

[Leowilde]

I know there are some people who prefer to bash others for the slightest thing, and they tend to show in content thats either high level, or low level they've done too many times. But in my experience, they are the exception. For the most part, talking to the party and explaining would go well, I think. Although I almost never play as tank, so I wouldn't know first hand.

[vp_cmc]

Well, this is enlightening.

We mostly talking about doing expert roulette dungeons in 260+ gear.

[Eifahlwyn]

Reading through more of these comments I must point out that the expectations of DF on these boards is a bit... skewed. Some people seem to think that every EX roulette should take 15 mins or less. Maybe they do if you happen to be a top tier DPS that can single handed carry the group but you are the exception and not the rule in DF. As someone who exclusively Tanks I must reiterate that the average random DPS (and Healer for that matter) in DF does not perform even close to their potential. Whether this is from apathy or lack of skill I can not say.

The point being is that I can fully relate with a Tank who does not want to pull large because most of the time it takes forever for mobs to die and it is added stress on both them and the Healer. If you happen to be a DPS/Healer that demands every EX run be super fast with massive pulls then I suggest you que with a Tank that you know.

[Alistaire]

You don't need to worry about pulling big until 50~60, and only with appropriate gear. If you don't feel comfortable doing big pulls 'til you're 60 w/ decent gear + wep no one will really hold it against you. But if you feel confident in pulling more as you level up then you'll have an easier time when you reach 60.

I wasn't even referring to that. Defense levels early on matter a lot to a tank, and while on the flipside healing is braindead easy those levels, people like to take advantage of that and speed things up dps'ing. So if you end up with an undergeared tank that gets chunked for half his life every 3 seconds it slows down the run because the healer has to focus solely on keeping them up.

The game also failed by allowing tanks to wear "Disciples of War" gear when there are times where that combined with underlevelled gear will make things very rough compared to how they should be.

[revonine]

I see. This is really discouraging.

Frankly, pay no heed to the people bickering in this thread. If tanking is the role you enjoy then stick with it. While your still learning pull only as much as you are comfortable with until you are accustomed to your skills and how they work together. Most of all be honest with your parties. If you are unfamiliar with something or uncomfortable with it, speak to them. They will appreciate your sincerity and the fact your not being a mute. Unless of course they are just assholes anyway lol.

[LineageRazor]

Imagine if dungeons were like PotD-- mobs actually hurt, you had to single target specific ones before they ruined your day and if you pulled a room... they thumped you into the ground and made you reconsider your tank pulling choices. If Square insists on keeping things this easy, people will insist on big pulls because it's boring otherwise.

This is one of the reasons why I think the current system is okay. You can set your own difficulty, pull as much as you think you can handle, and pull more once you feel like you're ready to push the envelope. That's one of the reasons Hullbreaker Hard was so loathesome - so many gates! Thankfully, it was balanced by Sohr Khai which optionally had some of the most challenging pulls I've seen in a long time.

Considering that these dungeons are meant to be farmed, practically from out of the gate, the ease of them makes sense. It DOES seem a bit silly to call them "Expert," though, to be sure!

Well, this is enlightening.

Most of what we're talking about doesn't apply to leveling dungeons. At early levels, many DPS jobs don't even HAVE an effective area-of-effect DPS ability. In such cases, pulling huge groups is counterproductive, as the DPS aren't killing them much faster than if you pulled one pack at a time, and your healer has to work overtime to keep you alive, costing them the opportunity to add their own DPS to the fight.

It's not until the level 50 dungeons that mass-pulling really becomes viable. By that stage, every job has an effective aoe, and generally that aoe gets MORE effective the more mobs you pull. For example, NIN's Death Blossom does 60 potency damage to every target hit. Against a single target, or even two, this is laughable damage. But with every enemy in range, you add 60 potency for every target. Against a group of ten mobs, that's 600 potency, far more total damage than any other attack the NIN could perform. And NIN's is far from considered to be the best aoe damage in the game.

At lower levels, just pull small groups. If you come across a group that specifically asks you to pull big, you can give it a shot - but for me, that has never happened in a leveling dungeon.

[Naunet]

Same rights to DPS and healers then however. If a DPS doesn't want to deal more damage and doesn't like the rotations, then they should also be free to not do them. And why not let a scholar /follow and go AFK if the fairy is doing the job just fine? Maybe he doesn't feel like playing today and just wants to get the daily dungeon done, so we shouldn't force him to play as long as the job is getting done. Let them if they want to do that!

This is silly. A tank's job is to keep the attention of mobs so that they don't attack the dps or healer. The speed a tank pulls does not matter and it's DEFINITELY not comparable to a dps or healer afking at the beginning of a dungeon.

[Welsper59]

We mostly talking about doing expert roulette dungeons in 260+ gear.

I can guarantee the majority do not care about the tank being undergeared. Most of us will not bother checking and assume anyone in Expert is Savage (or highest tier tome) geared, as far as expectations go on timing of the dungeon. The number of times I've seen bad healers and/or DPS (the overzealous bad type) tell undergeared tanks to pull everything in a party that lacks geared AoE DPS is insane.