Skipping MSQ

[Jandor]

So if the budget increase isn't due to cash shop sales, where did the money come from? Did it come from their asses?

Probably the millions and millions of dollars the game brings in from sales and subs. This is the game credited with saving SE as a company after all, saving it way before it had a cash shop as well.

Why would anyone start at level one if they had the immediate and free option of starting at 50/60? Why don't we just cut ARR, and eventually Heavensward, out completely? Removing all of those old zones would do a lot to help their profits, not to mention no longer needing to make things work between expansion zones.

Terrible idea, both level jump and yours. Your method just makes less sense.

No, the terrible idea is introducing tangible progress in exchange for money.

Treating 'A realm reborn/Heavensward/Stormblood' as a trilogy and letting weird people start with the 3rd one if for some reason they want to isn't something I particularly want, but considering the push for it (oh please won't someone think of the newbies!) it's by far the better option.

As for why anyone would play it, I've argued for a 'new game+' option before. I'd actually quite like to go back through the story on my character, if I'd started with 4.0 and never done it before it'd be great doing it the first time and getting xp for a 2nd or 3rd class at the same time.

E: In fact, typing this out has made me come around to the idea a bit more, new guy hears about FFXIV from his friends, dives straight into the latest expansion with them, and then can unlock 2.0 and 3.0 from the Wandering Minstrel and play them to level alt classes. New guy is happy, the old MSQ stuff is still useful, cash shop is kept in check, everyone's happy?

Still... this idea is dead in the water anyway. Topic basically opens up with "this shouldn't be in the cash shop" and the first reply is "but then how would SE make money from it?"

[Belhi]

Probably the millions and millions of dollars the game brings in from sales and subs. This is the game credited with saving SE as a company after all, saving it way before it had a cash shop as well.

Subs are generally a static source of income. If you want new features or more resources spent on the game or overhauls like the EU servers or the server upgrades we are getting their expense needs to be justified to the investors. The Cash shop allows that. If we want more from SE, they will need more revenue to justify it. After all its not like not upgrading the servers or hiring new staff would negatively effect profits that much. All that Sub money you mention is already been taken into account. Unless FF14 sees a massive growth in subs it's unlikely you would see substantially more money being reinvested into the game otherwise.

No, the terrible idea is introducing tangible progress in exchange for money.

Treating 'A realm reborn/Heavensward/Stormblood' as a trilogy and letting weird people start with the 3rd one if for some reason they want to isn't something I particularly want, but considering the push for it (oh please won't someone think of the newbies!) it's by far the better option.

As for why anyone would play it, I've argued for a 'new game+' option before. I'd actually quite like to go back through the story on my character, if I'd started with 4.0 and never done it before it'd be great doing it the first time and getting xp for a 2nd or 3rd class at the same time.

E: In fact, typing this out has made me come around to the idea a bit more, new guy hears about FFXIV from his friends, dives straight into the latest expansion with them, and then can unlock 2.0 and 3.0 from the Wandering Minstrel and play them to level alt classes. New guy is happy, the old MSQ stuff is still useful, cash shop is kept in check, everyone's happy?

Still... this idea is dead in the water anyway. Topic basically opens up with "this shouldn't be in the cash shop" and the first reply is "but then how would SE make money from it?"

The problem with a new game+ system they already said is due to how the Quest system is structured. Even things like Airships wouldn't be accessable till you re-unlocked them. You would loose all your progress. That is a system issue and unless they overhaul that system it is likely problematic to do.

As for why they wouldn't offer this for free, it's simple. It's to limit access for RMT and botters to later points in the game.

I would also ask, how does someone else skipping that game experience negatively impact you? Did you find playing that content a bad thing? I can find the only real issue is their potential performance endgame and that can be mitigated with Tutorial systems. Otherwise there isn't much logic to your argument.

Its like you go out for dinner with people and someone arrives after the main course and before dessert and you insist that they cant have any of the dessert unless they eat the main course too because everyone else had to. How is that you loosing out? Was eating the main course that unpleasant? Isn't it there loss for missing most of the meal?

[Spy]

stuff

Or you could compare it to climbing a mountain. On the one hand, you have the climbers that put in all the effort, blood sweat, tears and time to reach the top...and then you have others who found an elevator and were just taken to the top. Wouldn't that make your own efforts feel diminished and worthless?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Or you could compare it to climbing a mountain. On the one hand, you have the climbers that put in all the effort, blood sweat, tears and time to reach the top...and then you have others who found an elevator and were just taken to the top. Wouldn't that make your own efforts feel diminished and worthless?

Nope. Because I don't base the value of my accomplishments on others. It's like my current goal of eventually reaching a good enough percentile I'm happy with on FFlogs. It won't bother me in the slightest that The Creator will inevitably become a complete pushover because I'll have reached my personally goal. Regardless, it's a false equivalent. Climbing a mountain requires both effort and skill. Completing the MSQ may be a time investment, but there is no skill nor does it teach you anything. You do it because you enjoy the story or leveling that way. A skip option is for people who don't find enjoyment in that particular aspect. MMOs cater to broad varieties of people after all. Some only care for gameplay, and that's okay.

[Belhi]

Or you could compare it to climbing a mountain. On the one hand, you have the climbers that put in all the effort, blood sweat, tears and time to reach the top...and then you have others who found an elevator and were just taken to the top. Wouldn't that make your own efforts feel diminished and worthless?

Strickly speaking this isn't entirely correct cause the Jump Potions wouldn't take them all the way to 'the top'. It would be more like them using the elevator to catch up with people already walking up the mountain so they can walk the final stretch to the top together.

[Jandor]

Subs are generally a static source of income. If you want new features or more resources spent on the game or overhauls like the EU servers or the server upgrades we are getting their expense needs to be justified to the investors. The Cash shop allows that. If we want more from SE, they will need more revenue to justify it. After all its not like not upgrading the servers or hiring new staff would negatively effect profits that much. All that Sub money you mention is already been taken into account. Unless FF14 sees a massive growth in subs it's unlikely you would see substantially more money being reinvested into the game otherwise.

So long as we're on the same page that it's fundamentally nothing but SE and shareholders milking us for more money then I'm happy.

The problem with a new game+ system they already said is due to how the Quest system is structured. Even things like Airships wouldn't be accessable till you re-unlocked them. You would loose all your progress. That is a system issue and unless they overhaul that system it is likely problematic to do.

Take the 2.0 and 3.0 MSQ's, copy and paste into 2 new questlines that are unlocked from the Wandering Minstrel, same dialogue, same cut scenes, technically "different" quests. It seems pretty easy to me, maybe it just didn't spring to mind when Yoshi was asked?

As for why they wouldn't offer this for free, it's simple. It's to limit access for RMT and botters to later points in the game.

They'd still have to pay for the expansions. It isn't like a skip potion is going to be any better from a user point of view, they're RMT, they can afford it. If it's introduced we'll get botters at later points in the game.

I would also ask, how does someone else skipping that game experience negatively impact you? Did you find playing that content a bad thing? I can find the only real issue is their potential performance endgame and that can be mitigated with Tutorial systems. Otherwise there isn't much logic to your argument.

It doesn't negatively impact me, at the moment, but it's where you draw the line. As I said in the other jump potion thread, at the end of the day their is very little fundamental different between experience points, tomestones and the relic weapon, they're all time sinks. No matter how bad you are at the game so long as you're prepared to grind you can have everything I mentioned. Selling experience points opens the door to selling tomestones, or "progression gear" or "relic accelerators", selling jump potions is the definite end of the 'cosmetics only' cash shop.

I made this thread because I do have some sympathy for the new guy, I can see how signing up to play with your friends and being gated by 300 quests might seem insurmountable at first. I think it could maybe even be good for the new players to start with Stormblood, get invested in the game, and then see the original story line at a later date when they want to do it to level up their characters 2nd or 3rd job.
But, this game is like 90% time sinks, I think if we start selling ways round them on the mogstation we set a very risky precedent.

Edit: I must also add, that although it doesn't affect me at the moment, depending on the final price leveling potions could potentially do a lot of harm to leveling roulette. I think their are long term problems with level boosters that could seriously harm the game, that would effect me.

[Lambdafish]

So long as we're on the same page that it's fundamentally nothing but SE and shareholders milking us for more money then I'm happy.

Someone has never seen the adult world of business and investment. We aren't being extorted because they aren't withholding content. The closest thing on the cash shop that even comes close is eternal bonding, which has a free version without the fluff. Nothing in the cash shop contributes to gameplay in any way.


My personal view on jump potions is that they are fine but are seriously being considered prematurely. "But WoW has a levelling potion" people say... Yes, a levelling potion that was introduced in their fifth expansion to get a level 90 character. WoW was an 10 year old game at that point (we can treat XIV as a brand new game starting from ARR, as 1.0 can no longer be accessed). And they should definitely be paid for as a service not unlike server transfers and fantasias.

[loreleidiangelo]

My personal view on jump potions is that they are fine but are seriously being considered prematurely. "But WoW has a levelling potion" people say... Yes, a levelling potion that was introduced in their fifth expansion to get a level 90 character.

I mean, this would largely be unnecessary IF the MSQ wasn't a massive roadblock to doing pretty much anything meaningful in the game when a new expansion drops. I don't really think that anyone thinks the LEVEL boosting is mandatory, more that the story/MSQ skip part is.

If I were to be frank, I'd rather they just remove the mandatory MSQ flags on everything and let people bounce around to the content that they choose, so long as their level is adequate. But if the devs are going to keep insisting that everyone at least spam-click through their juvenile anime trope-fest than they need to give people a way to opt out of it, even if that way involves paying real-people dollars to do so.

[Jandor]

Someone has never seen the adult world of business and investment. We aren't being extorted because they aren't withholding content. The closest thing on the cash shop that even comes close is eternal bonding, which has a free version without the fluff. Nothing in the cash shop contributes to gameplay in any way.

A. Nothing in the cash shop contributes to gameplay in any way yet. A level potion would quite clearly affect gameplay. I also never said extortion. I said it's about getting more money, which it is, because it's a business and that's what they'll do. Our job is to get the best deal possible, the system doesn't work if we just immediately accept whatever's on offer.

B. How many times are people going to tell me that SE is a business? I know it's a business, I know it exists to part us from our cash, I know that's the reason why these things happen. What everyone seems to ignore is that explaining why doesn't justify it. You have to keep companies on their toes to keep them honest. That's the 'adult world', saying 'whatever you give us is fine' is never going to get you anything better.

[Kaitoo]

A. Nothing in the cash shop contributes to gameplay in any way yet. A level potion would quite clearly affect gameplay.

B. How many times are people going to tell me that SE is a business? I know it's a business, I know it exists to part us from our cash, I know that's the reason why these things happen. What everyone seems to ignore is that explaining why doesn't justify it.

Actually it does. Because the only justification in the free market for offering your product is that there are people who want to buy it


Now it is a whole other can of worms if this is like say, customer friendly, good in the long term and so on, which are/can be debated, but its still justify it perfectly