RIP Minion Collectors :(

[Aviars]

Good AND lack of people to overthrow them, indicating a population issue (you cannot tell me they're SO good no one could possibly compete with them). If there was a bigger population the top spots would be contested more regularly. Again, if you can camp a rank (ignoring how that is one heck of a design flaw) that's indicative of a problem.

Out of the people who are actually willing to play, yes, they are that good. But most of you admit defeat before even trying so there you go. People like you are just as much to blame.

[Frowny]

Out of the people who are actually willing to play, yes, they are that good. But most of you admit defeat before even trying so there you go. People like you are just as much to blame.

Difference between "willing" and "capable". Can anyone PvP? Sure. But the system is designed to basically put a wall up for newcomers and be a pain to scale over.

Egh, PvP in FFXIV suffers from so many issues it's not even funny.
2.) Barrier of entry
A short list of things you need to do to be competitive will probably get the point across best:
1. PvP Rank 50 to be on par with PvP abilities
2. iLvL 190+ in every slot, at least somewhat min/maxed in regards to secondaries (Accuracy is a no-no)
3. Cross Class abilities
Before you get this, you'll be at a tangible, numerical disadvantage. I'm already implying that you need to be 60, because lvl 50 queues scarcely pop. This is in no small part caused by the next point.

This nails what I would say is the biggest problem. Unless you get new blood to mix things up a bit, it will always be the same handful and get somewhat stale. Again, shown by the fact people can literally camp their rank.

[Aviars]

Difference between "willing" and "capable". Can anyone PvP? Sure. But the system is designed to basically put a wall up for newcomers and be a pain to scale over.

You realize everyone has to deal with the same thing right? And here we go with the newcomer bit..... your sense of entitlement is showing sir.

[Frowny]

You realize everyone else has to deal with the same thing right? And here we go with the newcomer bit..... your sense of entitlement is showing sir.

How is removing the barriers so everyone is on equal footing entitlement? It becomes more skill-based than "oh, I lost cause I didn't have X unlocked..." Yes, everyone has to deal with it but PvP has been around enough it is somewhat fragmented between those who have done it for a while and those just getting into it.

[MihaelB]

How is removing the barriers so everyone is on equal footing entitlement? It becomes more skill-based than "oh, I lost cause I didn't have X unlocked..." Yes, everyone has to deal with it but PvP has been around enough it is somewhat fragmented between those who have done it for a while and those just getting into it.

As much as I agree the 'top' PVPers have their elitist circle with not much of a population to be elitist with, how does having achievements and gear barriers different to PVE?

If I want to raid, do I ask for i250 gear? No I have to earn it as well as learn my PVE rotations, not have it handed to me on 'an equal footing' platter.

[Fawkes]

I stopped PvPing completely when they added the mini airship mount, because I really wanted it but will never be able to get 200 wins. If it was just play 200 matches win or lose I probably would have tried. But PvP is kind of inherently "unfair" and I have much less control over my ability to win than I do in PvE content. I never got a horse or a ball either and at this point I'd just rather not add to the number of active PvP players and have SE think I'm enjoying this.

[Aviars]

I stopped PvPing completely when they added the mini airship mount, because I really wanted it but will never be able to get 200 wins. If it was just play 200 matches win or lose I probably would have tried. But PvP is kind of inherently "unfair" and I have much less control over my ability to win than I do in PvE content. I never got a horse or a ball either and at this point I'd just rather not add to the number of active PvP players and have SE think I'm enjoying this.

Ya, it should be win or lose, so you can just throw 200 games and then have your mount right?

[Frowny]

Ya, it should be win or lose, so you can just throw 200 games and then have your mount right?

Your elitism is truly amazing. Who is to say they'll just throw a game... 200 freaking times at that?
Edit: Heck, this could very well encourage more to join in PvP which is always good. Or would you prefer it be kept to a tight inner circle?

As much as I agree the 'top' PVPers have their elitist circle with not much of a population to be elitist with, how does having achievements and gear barriers different to PVE?

If I want to raid, do I ask for i250 gear? No I have to earn it as well as learn my PVE rotations, not have it handed to me on 'an equal footing' platter.

Subtle difference is PvE does get nerfed to lower the barrier. While else would Midas Savage get echo buffs?

[Sindele]

hmmm, someone just painting a bad picture not based in reality? Wow, seems like someone else is being disingenuous here.

Let's paint the real picture here. People are anti-achievement. They don't want to feel that someone else is better. This was never about the the time making this reward exclusive. There have been many people expressing that THEY WERE FINE WITH PAYING MONEY for time exclusive items like collectors edition minions.

TBH I don't see how people aren't calling for achievements being erased from the game, because there are some achievements that are impossible for some to achieve and in the same way you can show off you achievements points and number of minions you got they won't be able to 'complete' their point 'collection.'

I see you haven't done anything to disclaim my point, instead running back to the refuge of claiming that everyone just wants everything easy.

What gets me the most here is that it's not merely enough to have *done* it and to be able to prove it and to have an item that proves it, there's an above-and-beyond desire - visible in this very thread, from these very reactions - that it MUST be more exclusive and visible than ANY other sort of limited achievement in the game because WE EARNED IT, as if nobody else has ever earned anything as much as top 10 PVPers have, and that anyone who finds that farcical or wants that to come with an eventual time limit on its exclusivity as a compromise is, what, entitled/lazy/bad/wrong/choose your own of any of the various not-particularly-compelling-or-factual reasons here. Pfft.

But hey, while I'm in the business of thinking about productive ways to bridge the gap: what if the minions had been made tradeable? How many of them would have been sold in the end, I wonder? I'd bet at least 70%.

Hell, what if it was instead a reward for hitting top whatever ever - probably further down than 10 unless something like decay comes into play, for previously mentioned reasons - as opposed to just the end of the season? The prestige title still exists, a prestige item still exists, but it would be something that proves that you at least tried, as well as something to strive for that keeps people queueing and doesn't expire with time. Isn't that exactly the sort of thing you claim to want?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I stopped PvPing completely when they added the mini airship mount, because I really wanted it but will never be able to get 200 wins. If it was just play 200 matches win or lose I probably would have tried. But PvP is kind of inherently "unfair" and I have much less control over my ability to win than I do in PvE content. I never got a horse or a ball either and at this point I'd just rather not add to the number of active PvP players and have SE think I'm enjoying this.

You can get the mount even through the unranked 8v8 matches. I did. After all the ranked ones I did, I just played 8v8s with other PvPers, even some of the top ones for fun. Some days later when I randomly went to the achievement guy, I discovered I'd earned and didn't even know.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.