[Cash Shop Idea] Game Time Token

[HPDelron]

GW2 proves otherwise, the price of ingame items even went up, and keep going up.

These games always have inflation since the money generated by killing monsters, turning quests and selling loot to NPCs always outstrips money being removed from the system by things like transportation and repair fees. Unless you move to a zero-sum NPC economy prices go up quickly, period. In fact it's reasonable to expect that 3 years from now in order to have the same buying power of 100-gil today in 3 years you might need to have as much as 125 gil (inflation tends to be rather high in MMOs). However with a money printing system like this, the rate of inflation would be staggering. We're not talking about a given super-popular item going from 1mil-1.5mil over the course of year.

We're talking about common item like a Rank 5 Materia going from 100k->4 mil over the course of a month.

Tokens really wouldn't do this. You might see more price volatility since savers wouldn't be sitting on tons of gil. But nothing like 100k->4 mil in a month.

[Reptiletc]

Even Runescape does this, so you have my vote.

[Kosmos992k]

I don't think GMs could ban so many accounts that fast, it might be they developed an automatic system.

Given the nature of the beast, it's all just database queries at that point, so long as their criteria are defensible, I think they could do it.

[RobbieH]

snip

If you people think Tokens are going to stop RMT and/or bots you're insane.

Also i know it's an example, but no way V materia will go from 100k to 4m (unless someone thinks that by buying every cheap materia can resell for 10 times more at this point), we're going for the next expansion, people who raid since Creator came out are maxed or almost there (mainly thanks to tokens), the price of the V materias won't go back to millions, VI materia will probably come with SB, V will be the IV of HW in SB, did IV cost millions anytime during HW? No.

The token system is bad because:

- People who have accumulated Gil over time and can't make much gil and buy a Token -> out of Gil, where do they turn? Are they going to buy a Token to sell in game? What was the point of buying it in game then to begin with? So they'll either have to deal with being out of gil or will turn to RMT.

- Rich people can play the game for free.

I also find funny people worried about inflation when there's people in the game who buy every single mat in the market at 100% and sell for 1000%+, especially when a new relic requires crafted stuff, or simply new Crafting recipes.

Let's create a scenario here:

Let's say Token conversion is 20€ for 10M, and i buy the token so i can make some in game gil.

Item X costs 10k per stack, new recipes come out, or new relic that requires those items, snipers already bought almost every stack unless very expensive after they read patch notes.

Item X stacks now costs 2m each, now please explain me how would i benefit from wanting to buy a Token so i could make Gil in-game? I'm curious.

I bet the Token price will also skyrocket to match the market prices.

[LineageRazor]

*RMT is bad by its very nature*

You keep mentioning that RMT is against the ToS, but obviously under this system at least one form of RMT would NOT be against the ToS (the type sponsored by SE directly). But what folks in this thread might not understand is WHY RMT is against the ToS in the first place. You aren't going to convince people that they shouldn't do something because it's against the rules, if they think those rules are stupid. I think you'd be able to sell your point better if you were to explain WHY RMT is bad.

Here's a rundown of why RMT is against the ToS in the first place (as I understand it, anyway), and how "legitimate" RMT addresses those issues:

- RMT puts money into the hands of folks who don't work in-game for it. It trivializes the work people do to earn gil in game when you can flash a credit card and get the same results.
This is true, both for legitimate and illegitimate RMT. Of course, a lot of methods for earning gil in this game are not what you'd call challenging - in many cases, earning gil is a simple matter of having more time to invest in the game. The so-called "no lifer" might be able to earn more money than others, but can they really be considered admirable for it? If earning gil was an award for defeating challenging content, rather than something you could do simply by grinding FATEs all day long, this argument might have a little more merit to it. Some of the advocates of RMT I've seen over the years bring up the point that their real life obligations mean they simply can't compete with the rate at which folks with more free time can earn in-game currency, and they use RMT in order to keep up with the Joneses. (On the other hand, this just creates TWO varieties of Haves. Have-nots still exist in folks who both do not have enough time AND can't afford to pay money.)

- People who are foolish with real-life money (and therefore are willing to buy gil) will be foolish with in-game money, as well.
In a free market, the prices of goods are determined by how much folks are willing to pay for those goods - particularly in the case of luxury items. In this game very nearly ALL items are luxury items. Anyone willing to actually pay real money for this stuff probably don't have an enormous amount of money-sense, and so will be willing to pay a lot more in-game currency for the item than a more sensible person would. This drives the prices out of the reach of conscientious players who work hard for the gil they accumulate in-game. This, too, is a problem both with legitimate and illegitimate RMT. Hey, if something gets more expensive, they can just flash that credit card again!

- Buying gil causes inflation
This, finally, is a problem with illegitimate RMT that is NOT present in legitimate RMT. In order to produce the currency that they sell to other players, illegitimate RMT farm the game hard (generally using bots) in order to build up gil. They are, essentially, printing money much faster than the game can dispose of it. The addition of new gil into the economy causes prices to rise across the board - and left unchecked, only individuals who buy gil from the RMT are able to afford anything at all. SE's lax stance on RMT in the early years of FFXI is a good example of just how horrible this can be - Christmas of '06 introduces so much new gil into the economy that everything became a hundred times more expensive. The RMT task force was created soon after, and since that day SE has been much more vigilant in dealing with RMT. However, the legitimate RMT folks are discussing would not have this problem. SE would not sell gil to players. PLAYERS would sell gil to players, gil that they have earned themselves.

- Gil farmers compete with legitimate players for resources
Again, this is only a problem under illegitimate RMT - and in this game, is rather muted even there. This game doesn't feature things like mining points that disappear for all players after one player accesses it, or free-roaming notorious monsters with valuable drops. While RMT do compete with regular players economically (they can farm crystals like nobody's business, which drives down the price), it's rare that they'll directly obstruct a player's gameplay. In a legitimate RMT system, both direct and indirect competition are eliminated.

If you take it as a given that folks, for whatever reason, are going to seek out RMT, then it becomes understandable why many in this thread think that the token system is a good idea. Two of the above points hold true regardless of whether RMT is sponsored directly by SE or not, and the other two are solved or improved because illegitimate RMT are written out of the equation. It seems to be a no-brainer that if you're going to have RMT at all, it's better for it to be sponsored and regulated by SE, rather than in the hands of people who are barely better than criminals.

However, there's another factor to consider:

- Legitimate RMT legitimizes RMT
Right now, there are a lot of players who might like to engage in RMT but refrain from doing so because they are afraid of the consequences. They could be banned by SE. They could have their credit card info or accounts stolen by the RMT they deal with. This means that the population of individuals who buy gil (and therefore spend it foolishly in-game, pumping up prices and so on) is much smaller than it COULD be. Under the token system, however, it pretty much tells folks that hey, it's okay to buy gil with real money. Go right ahead! No matter how you look at it, the ability to buy gil is harmful, both to the buyer and to the folks who are affected by that buyer's foolish buying habits in game. The token system might help get rid of the bots and shout-spammers, but it will also introduce a host of new gilbuying players. The problem is similar to the problem of legalizing drugs in real life - those drugs are harmful to the folks that use them, and sometimes also harmful to folks AROUND the folks that use them, which makes legalizing them a bad idea, but as long as they're illegal there will be a thriving criminal element working to deliver those drugs anyway.

[Kosmos992k]

**snip**Legitimate RMT legitimizes RMT**snip**

^^^^^^^^^^
The only thing in your post I agree with.

This game time token idea is a terrible one, I dislike the concept and disagree with it being implements, I do not see it as a solution to any problem in the game, and believe that it causes more problems that it ever attempts to solve.

I've already said before why I think RMT is wrong, and why I dislike this concept.

[AlphaFox]

I am kinda against the idea myself, I mean if its limited to how many you can buy I suppose but then it would seem an odd cause, yet if its free flowing, nothing is stopping someone with gil cap to purchase a year or more for free just using in game cash. Just the idea together gives me mixed feelings.

[HPDelron]

I am kinda against the idea myself, I mean if its limited to how many you can buy I suppose but then it would seem an odd cause, yet if its free flowing, nothing is stopping someone with gil cap to purchase a year or more for free just using in game cash. Just the idea together gives me mixed feelings.

I've got a buddy that does this is WoW. He's actually not paid a month sub since it came out and is always free 6-months into the future. However Blizzard is still getting their money, and he's a productive and active member of his in-game community. The people who bought those tokens are certainly happen with the gold they're getting. Exactly who is losing out in this equation?

Who or what specifically is worse off because of that situation than they would be otherwise?

[MomomiMomi]

I am kinda against the idea myself, I mean if its limited to how many you can buy I suppose but then it would seem an odd cause, yet if its free flowing, nothing is stopping someone with gil cap to purchase a year or more for free just using in game cash. Just the idea together gives me mixed feelings.

SE is still getting their money. What exactly is "free" about this?

[RobbieH]

SE is still getting their money. What exactly is "free" about this?

Can you read? He said what in his post:

someone with gil cap to purchase a year or more for free just using in game cash.

Rich people don't need to pay a sub anymore.