The one thing I really want for Paladins

[Sarcatica]

PLD should not get a gap closer, and neither should WAR. It is balanced because DRK is the one tank that can't protect from knockback (PLD has tempered will, and WAR and holmgang)

I do feel that all tanks need to have a some sort of gap closer. DRK can cheese Scrapline during Faust add in A9S because of Plunge, WAR/PLD can't get that kind of result, making DRK really good once you get the hang of it. Another few uses for Plunge in current Savage are Green Charges plunging in A10S, solo tanking Laser X Sword in A11S and Temporal Stasis in A12S. Plunge is pretty much this button you want to play around to get that almost perfect uptime on boss.

Sadly still something I want to practice more myself, time to time always just using it on CD and I look dumb having to run to boss because I can't hold Plunge for 5 secs or so.

[Lambdafish]

I do feel that all tanks need to have a some sort of gap closer. DRK can cheese Scrapline during Faust add in A9S because of Plunge, WAR/PLD can't get that kind of result, making DRK really good once you get the hang of it. Another few uses for Plunge in current Savage are Green Charges plunging in A10S, solo tanking Laser X Sword in A11S and Temporal Stasis in A12S. Plunge is pretty much this button you want to play around to get that almost perfect uptime on boss.

While I agree that plunge is good, this is not a reason for all tanks to need one. Holmgang and Tempered Will can also be used to cheese mechanics (especially on Sophia, not sure about alex as I haven't done it), which allows similar increases in uptime as plunge because the boss isn't moving around the arena as much. The solution is not to give a gap closer, but to expand on these skills to give them more uses than they currently do.

[Ultimatecalibur]

While I agree that plunge is good, this is not a reason for all tanks to need one. Holmgang and Tempered Will can also be used to cheese mechanics (especially on Sophia, not sure about alex as I haven't done it), which allows similar increases in uptime as plunge because the boss isn't moving around the arena as much. The solution is not to give a gap closer, but to expand on these skills to give them more uses than they currently do.

In A10S, Tempered Will and Holmgang can be used to cheese any short ranged red segment of a Single/Double/Triple Charge which usually leads to no need to disengage from the boss.

The biggest limits to Tempered Will use in most fights is that knockbacks are either completely avoidable at no loss of DpS or come multiple times in a three minute period.

[aleph_null]

In A10S, Tempered Will and Holmgang can be used to cheese any short ranged red segment of a Single/Double/Triple Charge which usually leads to no need to disengage from the boss.

The biggest limits to Tempered Will use in most fights is that knockbacks are either completely avoidable at no loss of DpS or come multiple times in a three minute period.

But you probably would rather use holmgang to cheese the tank prey mechanic so you don't have to disengage during the tank swap. I think running away from the prey would cost you more gcds than disengaging for the "out" charge.

[Ultimatecalibur]

But you probably would rather use holmgang to cheese the tank prey mechanic so you don't have to disengage during the tank swap. I think running away from the prey would cost you more gcds than disengaging for the "out" charge.

Was just pointing out that the anti-knockback does have use in A10S as the conversation was focused on Tempered Will.

[Cabalabob]

The biggest limits to Tempered Will use in most fights is that knockbacks come multiple times in a three minute period.

This is the biggest issue I find with tempered will, it really isn't so great as to warrant a cooldown as long as sentinel's. And any situation where it can be used tactically happens more times than it's CD. The only time I ever use tempered will tactically was shiva if she targeted me with the knockback arrow, since the chances of that happening multiple times was slim. And Sophia for the knockback + thunder II, since it only happens once.

Its just one of those moves that's too situational. It either needs to be improved to warrant the CD or have the CD reduced to improve the situational usability.

E.G. If it removed all esunable debuffs and made you immune to all esunable debuffs for the duration including draw in and knockback, that would immediately make it worth the 3min CD and vastly improve its usability outside of niche mechanics.

[Fernosaur]

On a more serious note:

This is the biggest issue I find with tempered will, it really isn't so great as to warrant a cooldown as long as sentinel's.

I 100% agree with this, and actually I think Tempered Will should either be another big damage reduction CD, or be on a similar recast timer as Plunge, with its recast increased for PvP or its duration decreased. Really there's absolutely no reason for it to be on a 3 min CD. If PLD could use it every 30-40 secs and Cover also had a lower recast, PLD's utility to continuously cheese knockback mechanics and help other party members cheese them as well would be amazing. At least on the trials that have forced movement mechanics, which really aren't even that many... I don't think any of those has even come up in Alexander savage at all, at least in the same make-or-break magnitudes that some trials have.

[Claire_Pendragon]

I do feel that all tanks need to have a some sort of gap closer. DRK can cheese Scrapline during Faust add in A9S because of Plunge, WAR/PLD can't get that kind of result, making DRK really good once you get the hang of it. Another few uses for Plunge in current Savage are -- solo tanking Laser X Sword in A11S

The 1st is a good example, but the 2nd is incorrect, as Holmgang and Tempered Will work better for X Laser Sword than Plunge.
Even with a well timed plunge right as the cast ends, nearly 2 out of 3 times, you dont even see the pushback effect, instead you just fall straight down through the floor. (And on a rare occasion where you do see the animation, you fall through the floor backwards, at an angle, and when your character's plunge tries to return they hti the underside of the floor, unable to go upward, and go back to falling downward.)
Where my PLD and WAR OT will just stay still and keep going.

Cant say on stasis, as Im not sure what u mean, as no one can move during it.

[Sarcatica]

The 1st is a good example, but the 2nd is incorrect, as Holmgang and Tempered Will work better for X Laser Sword than Plunge.
Even with a well timed plunge right as the cast ends, nearly 2 out of 3 times, you dont even see the pushback effect, instead you just fall straight down through the floor. (And on a rare occasion where you do see the animation, you fall through the floor backwards, at an angle, and when your character's plunge tries to return they hti the underside of the floor, unable to go upward, and go back to falling downward.)
Where my PLD and WAR OT will just stay still and keep going.

Cant say on stasis, as Im not sure what u mean, as no one can move during it.

You can still use LD when the wall is up. Once you reach last phase where wall is out, LD shouldn't be used. Admittedly Holmgang is just better here since WAR can still hit, comparing to LD where you need to time Plunge for the knockback.