Question to the WARs

[Fernosaur]

I'm late to the party here, but source?

I don't have a direct link, but it was mentioned during the Vegas Fanfest Live Letter preview of Stormblood. Look it up, the reddit thread should still be around!



They didn't really say much about it, just that cross-class skills would stop being cross-class and would now be categorized per role.

Or something.

[Sweetgrass]

These ideas are awful, and none of what you listed can possibly count as "vestigial."
The only thing you said that I can agree with is taking the enmity moves off the cross-class tree.

Bloodbath, Conval and Foresight are terrible or situational cooldowns alone, merging them because they're all crossclassable is just fine. Make it 50% lifesteal, 20% boosted healing, and 10% mitigation for 20s(120s CD as PLD/DRK, 90s as WAR) and it's done.

Stoneskin is a joke skill, Awareness is only useful in a handful of gimmick instances, and IR is only taken because there's nothing else that boosts WAR DPS, and it's paired with Berserk every time anyways. Removing them wouldn't change the classes much at all.

And no, I mean removing combo starters entirely. They're clunky and unfun, cutting them all will slim down the tank skillsets by a massive degree.

[Launched]

Bloodbath, Conval and Foresight are terrible or situational cooldowns alone, merging them because they're all crossclassable is just fine. Make it 50% lifesteal, 20% boosted healing, and 10% mitigation for 20s(120s CD as PLD/DRK, 90s as WAR) and it's done.

I want to use Bloodbath with Berserk for big burst healing with Fell Cleave or Overpower+Decimate. I want to use Convalescence with Thrill of Battle to replace Defiance. I want to use Foresight combined with Raw Intuition for more physical mitigation. I want to do those all at different times and combining them would stop that. On A12S I use Convalescence around the second Defamation so my SCH can use Deployment Tactics, then I want to use Vengeance+Bloodbath+Berserk on my time gate add and then RI+Foresight for the second buster. You want to combine 3 completely different skills with different uses into one skill and that's a horrible idea.

[Sweetgrass]

I want to do those all at different times and combining them would stop that.

No, it wouldn't. On WAR, all those instances are within at least 90s of each other, making the skills have laughable usefulness individually. They're mediocre cooldowns when used alone, combining them all would just give you another Rampart/Shadowskin/Raw Int tier skill to use. Any spot where you're using it for Bloodbath alone will give you the benefit of the mitigation, and a 90s CD is pretty quick in the world of cooldowns.

Also, burning a 2min CD because your scholar can't mitigate a Shared Sentence on week 6 is a joke.

[Jpec07]

I don't have a direct link, but it was mentioned during the Vegas Fanfest Live Letter preview of Stormblood. Look it up, the reddit thread should still be around!



They didn't really say much about it, just that cross-class skills would stop being cross-class and would now be categorized per role.

Or something.

Thanks for this. I looked it up and watched Mr. Happy's video. For combat jobs, it makes sense, but I really hope they don't completely do away with the cross class system, instead only shunting the "essential" skills into the role-based tree. Getting rid of it completely would also hurt DoH and DoL classes, which rely on cross-class skills to craft and gather effectively (there are some recipes, for example, where it is basically impossible to have any kind of guarantee at HQ without the use of cross-class skills).

Bloodbath, Conval and Foresight are terrible or situational cooldowns alone, merging them because they're all crossclassable is just fine. Make it 50% lifesteal, 20% boosted healing, and 10% mitigation for 20s(120s CD as PLD/DRK, 90s as WAR) and it's done.

On their own, any of the cooldowns (except Shadowskin/Rampart and the tankbuster CDs) is lackluster. But when you pair them properly the whole becomes greater than the sum of the parts. No one should be using these cooldowns together because they have better complements in other abilities.

Bloodbath works very well with Berserk (and the other myriad WAR DPS buffs), Fight or Flight, and Blood Weapon.

Convalescence pairs very nicely with Holmgang and Living Dead, or really any situation where you know you're going to need a lot of healing (Hell Wind in WCoM comes to mind).

The only one I can kind of agree with is Foresight, but it becomes extremely valuable when tanking lots and lots of adds (doesn't happen much in raiding, but there are plenty of situations where it's paid for itself in dungeons, hunts, FATEs, and Aquapolis, and others. At current gear levels, it can translate to a good chunk of mitigation, and so is certainly not a "terrible situational skill".

Stoneskin is a joke skill

False. Stoneskin is one of the best tools a PLD can use to help mitigate a tankbuster--or other incoming damage (the magic auto-attack in Ramuh comes to mind). Yes, you sacrifice DPS use it, but a 3.5k HP shield is nothing to scoff at.

Awareness is only useful in a handful of gimmick instances

Again, this is false. Awareness on its own provides a good chunk of mitigation, but has strong interplay with skills that increase block or parry rates thanks to how the combat table works (which may change, but we'll see). When paired with Bulwark, non-DA Dark Dance, or Raw Intuition, Awareness will make them substantially stronger, because it increases the amount of hits that can be blocked or parried. I seriously need to finish my Excel spreadsheet on this before 4.0 comes out, because the numbers are surprisingly impressive.

IR is only taken because there's nothing else that boosts WAR DPS, and it's paired with Berserk every time anyways.

Yes, because Warrior is a job that literally heals itself by doing damage. It is the only tank with access to a cross-class DPS buff, because for WAR, that amounts to more mitigation.

Removing them wouldn't change the classes much at all.

Yes. It. Would. Just because you don't see the value in something doesn't mean there isn't any. Just because you don't use certain skills doesn't mean no one does. A lot of people use all of the skills you have mentioned, and to very great effect.

And no, I mean removing combo starters entirely. They're clunky and unfun, cutting them all will slim down the tank skillsets by a massive degree.

I'd actually like to see more reason to use them. Power Slash, Butcher's Block, and Rage of Halone don't see too much use outside of combat opening (save maybe for snap enmity generation on a tank swap), and I'd like to see that changed.

[Sweetgrass]

Holy wall of text, buddy

1. The only time you would use Bloodbath with offensive CDs is if you're taking ongoing damage, so you're making a moot point.
2. Holmgang can be selfhealed, and LD is a trash skill for mitigation.
3. Foresight is so mediocre alone that it's nearly ALWAYS paired with something else. This is my main point.
4. Healers have much more effective shields. This is about as useful as Protect.
5. Crit rates on bosses are about 10% AT BEST, Awareness, outside of gimmicks like A7S, is not relevant.
6. It's still a vestigial button. Being paired with Berserk every time is evidence of that if you look at ANY good Warrior on fflogs.
7. Merge all 3 into a good cooldown, and people will use it as much as they can. Currently, they're already paired with others, for a mediocre effect. Slim down the tank skillset, people have been asking for this for a while.
8. Maybe give frontal positionals to them? Idk, issue is with the combo starting skills.

[GeekMatt]

3 separate skills serving 3 separate purposes should not be combined.

I'd like to see the tank stances combined. Hit the button once for shield Oath and from then on pressing it alternates shield/sword oaths. If I wanted Awareness combined with anything it would be Bulwark—call it Awareness but also increase block for PLD. I'm afraid to see what happens with Tempered Will, it's a skill I love (which could use some work), but I'm afraid they'll remove it due to lack of players knowing it's there when it matters. I've been playing with the idea of the removal of Fast Blade, making Savage Blade the level 1 move. There's a few ways to balance this but it really comes down to what their overall approach to reducing bloat will be, but this would really help the level 15-26 aggro struggle while removing a skill that only serves to pre-empty other skills.

[Gravton]

I like this idea, I'd take it a step farther though. I think skills should be combined and the stance your in determines the skill used. Like RoH and RA one procs in shield and the other in sword. War would benefit too. There is no reason to have 2 buttons for steel cyclone and decimate or inner beast and fell cleave. They both require you to be in a certain stance anyway. Much like the way Equilibrium works now.

Also I'd like to see awareness and bulwark combined and tempered will given a lower cooldown with some kind of def buff added (foresight?)

I think bloodbath should just be added to grit and defiance it's nice on pld but I think an instant cast self cure with no cd would fit a pld better.

But I agree with sweetgrass, situational buttons need to be paired with other abilities to remove button bloat. At the very least so you can use them outside of that situation. Then if your on a fight that has that situation you just save that CD for it.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

I'd rather not see those skills combined. There's absolutely no reason to combine those three. Pairing cds together is a good thing, don't remove some of the most interesting parts of playing a tank.

[Fernosaur]

I'm afraid to see what happens with Tempered Will, it's a skill I love (which could use some work), but I'm afraid they'll remove it due to lack of players knowing it's there when it matters. .

I've been so afraid of this ever since they announced it!! I know Tempered Will is kind of a waste a lot of times, but I've gotten so much mileage out of it in some fights. I just hope that, instead of removing it entirely, they just make its duration much longer, the CD shorter, and give it some other form of universal utility. I really hope that's the case with the skills they reconsider. One Ilm Punch, Tri-Bind, Tempered Will, Cover, etc come to mind. Their effects are cool on principle, but the use they see is so, so, so little... if only they did more things than what they do, without taking away what they DO atm, that would make me happy.

I'm also fearing for a hardcore Scholar nerf, tbh