Question to the WARs

[Jpec07]

Combine Foresight, Bloodbath, and Conval into one skill
Get rid of vestigial crossclasses like IR, Awareness, Stoneskin, etc

These ideas are awful, and none of what you listed can possibly count as "vestigial." Bloodbath and Convalescence don't interact, work better when paired with other skills, and don't have any interplay with Foresight. Awareness actually has a lot of utility if paired with abilities that increase your block or parry chance. Stoneskin is damn powerful on a PLD who uses it skillfully, and if you are a WAR without Internal Release, you're doing it wrong.

The only thing you said that I can agree with is taking the enmity moves off the cross-class tree.

As you all know, we are moving away from the sub-class system and going to a role category in terms of obtaining other job's skills.

I'm late to the party here, but source?

[Fernosaur]

I'm late to the party here, but source?

I don't have a direct link, but it was mentioned during the Vegas Fanfest Live Letter preview of Stormblood. Look it up, the reddit thread should still be around!



They didn't really say much about it, just that cross-class skills would stop being cross-class and would now be categorized per role.

Or something.

[Jpec07]

I don't have a direct link, but it was mentioned during the Vegas Fanfest Live Letter preview of Stormblood. Look it up, the reddit thread should still be around!



They didn't really say much about it, just that cross-class skills would stop being cross-class and would now be categorized per role.

Or something.

Thanks for this. I looked it up and watched Mr. Happy's video. For combat jobs, it makes sense, but I really hope they don't completely do away with the cross class system, instead only shunting the "essential" skills into the role-based tree. Getting rid of it completely would also hurt DoH and DoL classes, which rely on cross-class skills to craft and gather effectively (there are some recipes, for example, where it is basically impossible to have any kind of guarantee at HQ without the use of cross-class skills).

Bloodbath, Conval and Foresight are terrible or situational cooldowns alone, merging them because they're all crossclassable is just fine. Make it 50% lifesteal, 20% boosted healing, and 10% mitigation for 20s(120s CD as PLD/DRK, 90s as WAR) and it's done.

On their own, any of the cooldowns (except Shadowskin/Rampart and the tankbuster CDs) is lackluster. But when you pair them properly the whole becomes greater than the sum of the parts. No one should be using these cooldowns together because they have better complements in other abilities.

Bloodbath works very well with Berserk (and the other myriad WAR DPS buffs), Fight or Flight, and Blood Weapon.

Convalescence pairs very nicely with Holmgang and Living Dead, or really any situation where you know you're going to need a lot of healing (Hell Wind in WCoM comes to mind).

The only one I can kind of agree with is Foresight, but it becomes extremely valuable when tanking lots and lots of adds (doesn't happen much in raiding, but there are plenty of situations where it's paid for itself in dungeons, hunts, FATEs, and Aquapolis, and others. At current gear levels, it can translate to a good chunk of mitigation, and so is certainly not a "terrible situational skill".

Stoneskin is a joke skill

False. Stoneskin is one of the best tools a PLD can use to help mitigate a tankbuster--or other incoming damage (the magic auto-attack in Ramuh comes to mind). Yes, you sacrifice DPS use it, but a 3.5k HP shield is nothing to scoff at.

Awareness is only useful in a handful of gimmick instances

Again, this is false. Awareness on its own provides a good chunk of mitigation, but has strong interplay with skills that increase block or parry rates thanks to how the combat table works (which may change, but we'll see). When paired with Bulwark, non-DA Dark Dance, or Raw Intuition, Awareness will make them substantially stronger, because it increases the amount of hits that can be blocked or parried. I seriously need to finish my Excel spreadsheet on this before 4.0 comes out, because the numbers are surprisingly impressive.

IR is only taken because there's nothing else that boosts WAR DPS, and it's paired with Berserk every time anyways.

Yes, because Warrior is a job that literally heals itself by doing damage. It is the only tank with access to a cross-class DPS buff, because for WAR, that amounts to more mitigation.

Removing them wouldn't change the classes much at all.

Yes. It. Would. Just because you don't see the value in something doesn't mean there isn't any. Just because you don't use certain skills doesn't mean no one does. A lot of people use all of the skills you have mentioned, and to very great effect.

And no, I mean removing combo starters entirely. They're clunky and unfun, cutting them all will slim down the tank skillsets by a massive degree.

I'd actually like to see more reason to use them. Power Slash, Butcher's Block, and Rage of Halone don't see too much use outside of combat opening (save maybe for snap enmity generation on a tank swap), and I'd like to see that changed.

[Sweetgrass]

Holy wall of text, buddy

1. The only time you would use Bloodbath with offensive CDs is if you're taking ongoing damage, so you're making a moot point.
2. Holmgang can be selfhealed, and LD is a trash skill for mitigation.
3. Foresight is so mediocre alone that it's nearly ALWAYS paired with something else. This is my main point.
4. Healers have much more effective shields. This is about as useful as Protect.
5. Crit rates on bosses are about 10% AT BEST, Awareness, outside of gimmicks like A7S, is not relevant.
6. It's still a vestigial button. Being paired with Berserk every time is evidence of that if you look at ANY good Warrior on fflogs.
7. Merge all 3 into a good cooldown, and people will use it as much as they can. Currently, they're already paired with others, for a mediocre effect. Slim down the tank skillset, people have been asking for this for a while.
8. Maybe give frontal positionals to them? Idk, issue is with the combo starting skills.

[Sweetgrass]

These ideas are awful, and none of what you listed can possibly count as "vestigial."
The only thing you said that I can agree with is taking the enmity moves off the cross-class tree.

Bloodbath, Conval and Foresight are terrible or situational cooldowns alone, merging them because they're all crossclassable is just fine. Make it 50% lifesteal, 20% boosted healing, and 10% mitigation for 20s(120s CD as PLD/DRK, 90s as WAR) and it's done.

Stoneskin is a joke skill, Awareness is only useful in a handful of gimmick instances, and IR is only taken because there's nothing else that boosts WAR DPS, and it's paired with Berserk every time anyways. Removing them wouldn't change the classes much at all.

And no, I mean removing combo starters entirely. They're clunky and unfun, cutting them all will slim down the tank skillsets by a massive degree.

[Launched]

Bloodbath, Conval and Foresight are terrible or situational cooldowns alone, merging them because they're all crossclassable is just fine. Make it 50% lifesteal, 20% boosted healing, and 10% mitigation for 20s(120s CD as PLD/DRK, 90s as WAR) and it's done.

I want to use Bloodbath with Berserk for big burst healing with Fell Cleave or Overpower+Decimate. I want to use Convalescence with Thrill of Battle to replace Defiance. I want to use Foresight combined with Raw Intuition for more physical mitigation. I want to do those all at different times and combining them would stop that. On A12S I use Convalescence around the second Defamation so my SCH can use Deployment Tactics, then I want to use Vengeance+Bloodbath+Berserk on my time gate add and then RI+Foresight for the second buster. You want to combine 3 completely different skills with different uses into one skill and that's a horrible idea.

[Sweetgrass]

I want to do those all at different times and combining them would stop that.

No, it wouldn't. On WAR, all those instances are within at least 90s of each other, making the skills have laughable usefulness individually. They're mediocre cooldowns when used alone, combining them all would just give you another Rampart/Shadowskin/Raw Int tier skill to use. Any spot where you're using it for Bloodbath alone will give you the benefit of the mitigation, and a 90s CD is pretty quick in the world of cooldowns.

Also, burning a 2min CD because your scholar can't mitigate a Shared Sentence on week 6 is a joke.

[Launched]

No, it wouldn't. On WAR, all those instances are within at least 90s of each other, making the skills have laughable usefulness individually. They're mediocre cooldowns when used alone, combining them all would just give you another Rampart/Shadowskin/Raw Int tier skill to use. Any spot where you're using it for Bloodbath alone will give you the benefit of the mitigation, and a 90s CD is pretty quick in the world of cooldowns.

Vengeance+Bloodbath immediately followed by RI+Foresight isn't 90s apart. Sure, I could change my cooldowns in there to fit your idea, but then the 20% increased healing is completely wasted. Your idea isn't exactly an amazing cooldown because 10% mitigation isn't much to help keep you alive (Foresight mitigates more physical damage than that) so you're going to stack it anyway. That just means you're losing out on being able to use Bloodbath/Convalescence in other situations (and the 3 separate skills already stack well with several other cooldowns). Again, you're trying to combine 3 skills with completely different uses and that just means part of the skill will often go to waste.

Also, burning a 2min CD because your scholar can't mitigate a Shared Sentence on week 6 is a joke.

The more shields we have, the more DPS the healers can do. It costs me nothing to pop Convalescence at that point (and in plenty of other fights since HW release), so why wouldn't I do it?

[Sweetgrass]

You missed my entire point, which is in the basic use of tank cooldowns.

You use Bloodbath, a skill for self-healing over time. Hmm, I wonder what must be happening during that time? Incoming damage? Mitigation would sure help for that. What's that? Tank damage is a healer's concern? Why not get some increased healing too?

Every time you argue for using Bloodbath/Foresight/Conval separately, but STILL paired with other cooldowns, just shows how vestigial they are. If they were combined, it'd be a good button for tanks to press. Currently, they're just mediocre and contribute to button bloat.