A no new players feast queue?

[LisannaTargaryen]

They already give ppl a reason to play it like unique gear/title and in season 3 even a mount then there are the achievement mounts you get for wins. Also at the start of the seasons queues are actually pretty good. Competitive modes will always be a bit toxic everywhere you go (irl sport etc.) only way to make it better is to change the matchmaking etc. but even then ppl wont q for the rewards cause they already think they cant get it. I dont really get your logic tho with the pve example there is alot of toxicity in Raids not just pugs even statics can be toxic.

Sure PuGs can be toxic. Statics slightly less. The toxicity stems mostly of not beating the content after many many many tries (see A3S). You even get toxic behavior in DF. But those are the exception not the norm. Atm if u queue in Ranked Feast Toxicity is the norm. If the mount for example is only for the top 100 the more casuals will not even bother. If the mount was a more reasonable "goal" ie 200 games not wins in S3 surely more people would be motivated. The gear for PvP is just useless except going for PvP BiS.

There is a fine line that SE has to thread between keeping Hardcore PvP players happy and actually enticing more people to participate. Wondrous Tails ie is a good idea. Instead of giving too many primals and DF options they should had added less of those and more to do PvP. Atm with WT you can get 8/16 sticker doing unsync content(4 ARR Primals - 1-49 dun , 50 dun , 2x Coils).

In the end i am not a game designer and i enjoy PvP casually when and if queues pop. It up to the community to foster it's growth. Same thing with raiding. People complain there are no raiders in their servers but they dont actually take a step back and try to help people get invested.

@Nakanishi
I will not even bother.



Edit: To add to the toxicity. Most times toxicity comes from missaligned goals. 1 players will want 2 raid more or 1 player will think someone in the team holds him back. In PvP u get the person who is the the lulz there, the clueless guy, the guy who wants 2 win no matter cost and the guys who wants 2 get more kills etc etc.

[Zojha]

Games like LoL cant do without solo queues else no one would play the game.

You'd be surprised how many people don't even play ranked in LoL. As of September 2016, LoL has around 100 million monthly active players - in EUW, 3 million people are ranked http://euw.op.gg/statistics/tier/ and in NA, 2 Million people are ranked http://na.op.gg/statistics/tier/. Of that, gold silver and bronze make up 90%. Even if you count the two together and double it to account for other regions, that's still only about 10% of the monthly active people that are ranked - in a game whose selling point in advertisements is E-Sports. A MOBA, a PvP game at its core.

Let that sink in for a moment. Then think about what that means for PvP in a game like FFXIV. Then think about what that means for RANKED PvP in a game like FFXIV. If your thought is along the lines of:"Uh oh...", you're on the right track.

[LisannaTargaryen]

Wow the numbers have dropped. I stopped at S3.

What u say makes sense. Still i believe having only ranked teams its much better system and actually promotes the e-sport element.

[aeoncs]

Wow the numbers have dropped. I stopped at S3.

What u say makes sense. Still i believe having only ranked teams its much better system and actually promotes the e-sport element.

That's how it should be. But PvP in FFXIV is way too niche and a lot would have too change before light party ranked could ever be taken seriously; I mean, just look at the ladders. As a PvPer you either have to make due with what you have, which is the occasional frontlines and soloq Feast for ranked and "competition", or you have to transfer to the one server of your datacenter where most of the PvP community resides and play 4v4 in an unranked environment to get your fix.



B2T: That just wouldn't work in the field. First they have to fix their horrible matchmaking and rating system, then we can talk other changes. Rating decay if you don't play at least 10~ games a week, only matching players of similar rating (unranked with bronze, bronze with unranked & silver, silver with bronze & gold etc.) because under no circumstance should a top 10, or even a top 100 for that matter, player ever be matched with/against someone who is playing their first game; the thing is that the latter can only work if they punish players for not playing as otherwise games wouldn't pop at all. But seeing as pretty much any other solo queue mode uses such a system, I have no idea what needs to happen for them to pull their heads out of their a** and get it done.

[Zojha]

But seeing as pretty much any other solo queue mode uses such a system[...]

To be fair here: League of Legends only has decay for platinum and up - gold, silver and bronze, so 90% of the ranked playerbase is unaffected - oh, and gold happens to be the rank where you get the Seasonal Skin, so the main reward for ranked. And I didn't pick the monthly active players as reference earlier at random - Rating decay starts at 28 days of ranked inactivity there. For Master and Challenger players (the top 0,05%), you need to play a game a day (though you can bank up to 10 games as reserve).

In fairness, their seasons last about one year. Our seasons last...three, four months? Divide the whole thing by 4 and you get to around 1 game per week - for platinum and above.

DotA2 IIRC has no rating decay and uses MMR as rating for ranked games. Overwatch I think implemented a rating decay recently - it's 50 on a scale of 5000 per week until you play one game. In their system however, decay won't get you below 3000 rating however, which is diamond for them. Starcraft 2 MMR decay used to start at 2 weeks of no game and was capped at 4 weeks or about 310 MMR - It also got removed entirely as of August 2015. CS:GO has no rating decay - it just gets hidden if you are inactive for a month (Admittedly, that information is shaky).

So with ~10 games a week, you're pretty much asking for the harshest rating decay in probably one of the the least competitive games out there. Just to put that into perspective.

[aeoncs]

So with ~10 games a week, you're pretty much asking for the harshest rating decay in probably one of the the least competitive games out there. Just to put that into perspective.

While this is true, the average game of LoL or Dota lasts anywhere from 3 to 10 times as long as the average Feast match. Also, rating decay doesn't have to effect bronze and silver Feast players either as that would be kinda pointless anyway; but gold should definitely be part of it, especially considering that there wasn't a single diamond player this season, in any of the datacenters.
I really don't think that having to spend 40-80 minutes playing a mode that's supposed to be fun to you, plus maybe half an our of waiting, each weak is too much to ask for. It could be brought down to 5 games a week but anything less and it won't change the way things are now.

[Zojha]

While this is true, the average game of LoL or Dota lasts anywhere from 3 to 10 times as long as the average Feast match.

Remarkably exact :P The average is around 32 minutes (The higher the skill level, the shorter the game). A Feast match lasts at the very least 3 minutes (preparation time is included) - That's if the enemy gets steamrolled on the first round. It goes up to 10 minutes if the timer runs out. So 3-10 times.

If you consider queue times as well however...the two get a lot closer (League waiting time last I played were 1 minute max). Especially if you make matchmaking stricter - I do remember reports of hour long queues for gold players in season 1, which most likely were the reason it got changed in the first place. At that point, you could play one or two games of league before even getting into one game of Feast.

Another, unrelated issue is...you are assuming the mode is supposed to be fun for people. If that was the case, we could scratch the rewards, because rewards are always compensation for doing something you don't enjoy. This would, at the same time, make the rating decay obsolete, because people no longer had a reason to sit on their rating - nothing depends on it after all - so everyone who did enjoy the mode would just play and people who didn't enjoy would just drop out entirely and not even get into the ratings. But that's not what the people want, is it? No, I know this forum better.
Moreover, even if people DID enjoy it, if you turn something fun into an obligation, it can quickly become a chore, because you're no longer doing it whenever you feel like it, but when Simon says you do.

And yes, I totally agree the rating decay wouldn't change the way things are now unless it was unusually strict. I think I actually said that myself earlier. I just don't think trying to fix the system by making it more punishing is going to make PvP any bit more fun, enjoyable or popular. I think the entire idea of a ranking system in this game was a brainfart of someone with a great passion for Ranked PvP and little commercial sense. But I'm not going to insist, I've realized by now that's futile - just refer to my post in a couple of years when you still ping pong between horrendous queues and sucky matchmaking because you keep fighting symptoms without touching the cause.

[LisannaTargaryen]

Lets Disect League for example.

Why someone wants 2 climb a rank.


1st is seasonal reward. If you reach once Gold u get it even if u drop to bronze 5 afterwards. Plat - Diamond is solely to prove you are good player. And Challenger/Master is so u can be recruited to a Team or for Teams to get a chance to join the LCS (League Championship Series).


Coming 4.0 because earlier is just not possible they spin up a dedicated PvP Server. That server just copies gear info and race when u get matched and your character get marked in your server as in instance.No special glams etc which would make it harder. Then you are getting connected to the PvP Server. This allows Cross-Datacenter PvP. If it stress the server split JP and NA/EU. Us European already played for years in the canadian datacenter so the benefits overweight the increased latency.

Effectively u get a bigger pool of people to play with.

Season instead of 3 months become yearly and the top 8 teams gets a full expenses trip to Japan ie to fight for a cup and maybe some other prize. Seriously 60k investment is not a big deal for SE to make it happen and can even get it sponsored. Also makes the more casuals invested into watching those players (Twitch etc etc) and maybe actually learn a few things more about PvP.

For Solo Players u can keep the ladder but the reward will be one and "easily" achievable. In example 50 wins in the season. This makes it limited but also incentivizes winning without inducing full toxicity levels.


Edit: found a great prize. The winners get immortalized in Wolves Den under a Hall of Fame statue thats clickable and pop's up the names of the winners.


Edit 2 :: in this kind of system rank decay would make sense as well.

[Februs]

you are assuming the mode is supposed to be fun for people. If that was the case, we could scratch the rewards, because rewards are always compensation for doing something you don't enjoy.

That's not necessarily true, though.

Rewards certainly can be a compensation for doing something you don't enjoy (such as a Christmas bonus at work), but it's not always the case. They hand out rewards in sporting events all the time, but the participants wouldn't be there in the first place if they didn't enjoy the sport. Rewards are intended to be a pat on the back for a good performance, not a compensation for doing something they hated every minute of. The same can be said here.

In Feast, we get a ugly fancy looking PvP glamour set. The only reward is literally just a status symbol within the PvP community. It serves no purpose anywhere else in the game. That kind of a reward isn't really all that much of a compensation for anyone who hates PvP, so why bother? If it's a monetary reward, or a reward they could use anywhere else in the game, then it would be different, but it's just a glamour. If a glamour is all someone is after, then there are far easier, and better looking, ones that they could get their hands on without playing a game mode they hate. With that said, it follows that some people are there just for the fun of PvP and a competition -- no matter how warped of a competition it might be.

That said, I do agree that the ranking system in this game is a giant brainfart, but I don't believe it's the brainfart of someone who has a great passion for ranked PvP. I think it's the other way around. If SE had any passion for ranked PvP at all, then they would of ensured we had a matchmaking system that worked, rather than one that punishes players who make the mistake of actually playing.

[TiaHariberux3]

Sure PuGs can be toxic. Statics slightly less. The toxicity stems mostly of not beating the content after many many many tries (see A3S). You even get toxic behavior in DF. But those are the exception not the norm. Atm if u queue in Ranked Feast Toxicity is the norm. If the mount for example is only for the top 100 the more casuals will not even bother. If the mount was a more reasonable "goal" ie 200 games not wins in S3 surely more people would be motivated. The gear for PvP is just useless except going for PvP BiS.

If the mount was more reasonable it would end up in just farming for mount then never try again + it would have no value. The reason behind gear/mount reward in feast ranked are obviously meant for the ppl who pvp on a regular base there is nothing wrong with it and no it wouldnt change anything ppl were toxic at the start of feast when casuals farmed for the 200 win mount.

Sometimes people really talk the PvPers bad its not like we dont want more players its just we dont like people who cant listen to anything etc.. So many ppl jump in there without looking up guides (yes there are guides for classes, pvp modes, pvp skills etc.) hell there were/are sites just for pvp. What we get? Still players with no clue, wearing bad gear (ilvl150 stuff or stuff with main stats like dex on smn) further more most new ppl dont take any critismn and just say "its toxic". I remember ppl just farming for their tomes doing nothing in a whole match thats what PvPers are used to if they see new ppl. Want to get into pvp? practice not in ranked, show you willing to learn (checking guides etc.), ask more experienced players and dont talk sh** to other more experienced players who use macro or chat to help ppl.

Sure more ppl would be motivated if u put it up as a certain amount of wins but those rewards are meant to be exclusive to the ones supporting pvp in this game. Casuals would just straight up leave pvp forever after getting the rewards.

Btw. where are all the complaints about the savage raid mounts that "casuals" dont get. People should deal with it. We have season 3 and 4 the possibility to get it. I hope those rewards never come into the cash shop.