A no new players feast queue?

[Nakanishi]

Not queuing to protect ones rank is not the only reason why some people (not everyone) stops queuing. A lot of us like to have fun, and playing with players that are significantly less skilled than yourself is not fun, at all, in the slightest. Your use of toxic is skewed.

Anyone who collects majority points in the early season when everyone is within the same rank bracket, then chooses to never queue for the entire remainder of the season, is actively sabotaging queue times and making a mockery of competition.

There is no competition in solo queue, as you get higher you just get fucked by this game's terrible matchmaking, get high you'll see what is actually disgusting.

You can call out the Top 10 all you want, go fight them and see why they're there.

[Februs]

Not queuing to protect ones rank is not the only reason why some people (not everyone) stops queuing. A lot of us like to have fun, and playing with players that are significantly less skilled than yourself is not fun, at all, in the slightest. Your use of toxic is skewed.

So ... the hypothetical excuse you're going for those people not queuing is that it's beneath them to play with lower ranked or weaker players, yet MY use of the word toxic is skewed? LOL. Sure ... let's go with that ... lol.

There is no competition in solo queue, as you get higher you just get fucked by this game's terrible matchmaking, get high you'll see what is actually disgusting.

I already know how craptastic the matchmaking system is. I've been as high as 1105 in the primal rankings before going on a losing streak which landed me somewhere in the 800's, and I can't seem to go a single night of queues without getting at least a handful of new or unranked players. You're preaching to the choir when you talk about how terrible the matchmaking is ... but that's doesn't mean that there's no competition. There might not be in Aether, because no one plays, but Primal is far more active. People are still fighting to climb the ladder. The only time there's NO competition is when the queue is dead, which only happens when people stop queuing.

You can call out the Top 10 all you want, go fight them and see why they're there.

Yeah, I've heard this one before. Go play with the top ten and you'll see. Well, been there; done that. I've played a ton of matches with the top ten on Primal, as I'm sure most people have. It's not exactly a big community. The top 10 on Primal are mostly excellent players. I have nothing but respect for them, especially the ones I've seen slugging it out to get there ... but so what? The top 10 in Primal have a significantly higher number of total matches than those on Aether and some of them are STILL active. I've also lost just as many matches with them as I've won, so I'm not seeing your point here.

As for the Aether top 10 ... are they supposed to be intimidating? I'd love to play against them. Sadly, there's no cross-data centre play ... and given their total matches, it doesn't seem likely that I'd even see them if there was. I'm more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their skill. I'm sure they're all quite good, but if I had to chose between the top 10 of Primal and the top 10 of Aether, then there's no contest. I'd place my money on the ones who play regularly, not the ones who slide by on an early lead.

[Nakanishi]

Not having fun with extreme gaps in skill is a legitimate reason to not have a desire to play. The logic works both ways in that people generally don't have fun getting crushed. Your interpretation of what I'm saying is very off. Not once did I imply that lower skilled players are "beneath" me (in Top 10). Lol. Stop trying to flip my words to make your own point.

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There is literally no real competition in solo queue, you're free to continue to contest that fact. Solo queue is too heavily influenced by RNG to be considered competitive. Rarely does matchmaking ever make completely balanced games. Even while solo queue was active it wasn't competition lol.

And, Rank 1 should never be paired with a brand new player(s).

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Oh, you're back to how you managed to beat the top 10 on primal. You should provide the party make-up of these victories your're achieving so that we can see if it was rng or skill that determined the results. This game failed attempt in balancing teams is likely the only reason you're "even" against your Top 10.

Matches played certainly doesn't determine skill, I hope you weren't implying that was the case lol. We have someone who has played nearly 2k matches this season and they spent the last 3 months teetering in and out of top 100. Guess where they are now. Also, there is thing called "Custom Matches" or "Light Party Queue" (real tests of skill) where us on Aether, atleast on Balmung, like to get our PvP fix in. A place where we can play with reliable teammates against team(s) of comparable levels to actually find enjoyment in PvP. Needless to say, fighting players of exceptional gaps in skill is not fun, at all.

I'd be down for cross-datacenter pvp. Your team vs my team. It would be some uhh..."interesting" results lol.

I'm sure you're not ready for Aether vs Primal comparisons, quite frankly you have no weight in that regard.

That reminds me, being as though you obviously didn't do your research, Aether's top 10 has changed a lot after the initial few weeks into the season. Only 2 remaining from the first push. Current top 1 established his position well into the season. The rest of the slots fluctuated until 3.4.
Slide by on an early lead he says lol.

[Februs]

I'm sure you're not ready for Aether vs Primal comparisons, quite frankly you have no weight in that regard.

What a joke lol.

Firstly, I'm painfully aware of just how little the Aether rankings move, because my browser insists on opening up the Aether rankings every time I log into the rankings page (seriously no idea why, and I can't seem to fix it). You can claim they've "changed a lot" all you want, but you're not fooling anyone. You're also not going to be able to dispute how pathetically inactive your server is. We can see your total matches clear as day. If we consider the total duration of the season, then most of you have barely played a match a night, and that's being generous enough to assume that those matches were spread out. It's far more likely that the bulk of them were early in the season, when it was safe to queue.

Secondly, I don't consider light party queue for anything, because it's the easiest format for match-fixing. We've seen a ridiculous number of posts complaining about unfair boosting in the forums, a lot of which came out of Aether, so why would I ever take that mode seriously? I'm not going to point any fingers at anyone (especially from another DC in which I have no first hand evidence), but I'm also not going to assume that it's in any way an accurate scale for skill when there's no way to know which matches, if any, are actually on the level. For all I know those matches are all on the up and up ... or they all could be totally fixed and a load of bunk.

Thirdly, the fact that you're even considering RNG over skill as a deciding factor is enough for me to not take you seriously. Don't get me wrong. I totally agree that luck plays a huge part in this, but you have to work with what you're given. The top 10 who have remained active in Primal have stayed there because they work their asses off to carry the scrubs they get the shaft with instead of crying over unfair matchmaking. You should consider that before you start making baseless boasts about anyone not being "ready" for Aether vs Primal comparisons. You're not intimidating anyone. You're just making us laugh. Honestly, I would love to see Cross DC play just for the sake of a more active queue line, but now I'd be more than curious to see just how "interesting" those results got lol.

Now, putting aside the pissing contest for a minute, I do agree with one thing you've said:

Rank 1 should never be paired with brand new player(s)

No matter what our disagreements, I don't think either of us are going to argue that SE needs to fix the matchmaking, or at the very least ensure that the point reduction for having new or unranked players is substantially reduced (if not eliminated). Right now, the risks of playing with new players are miles and miles beyond the potential reward. It should be the other way around. In my case, I also believe that a minor rank decay should be implemented, because if someone isn't willing to fight for their rank, then they really don't deserve it. These two things should go hand in hand, though. I wouldn't take one without the other.

[Nakanishi]

Firstly, I'm painfully aware of just how little the Aether rankings move, because my browser insists on opening up the Aether rankings every time I log into the rankings page (seriously no idea why, and I can't seem to fix it). You can claim they've "changed a lot" all you want, but you're not fooling anyone. You're also not going to be able to dispute how pathetically inactive your server is. We can see your total matches clear as day. If we consider the total duration of the season, then most of you have barely played a match a night, and that's being generous enough to assume that those matches were spread out. It's far more likely that the bulk of them were early in the season, when it was safe to queue.

Unfortunately, i don't have the ability to make the blind see, I apologize for your disability. Just because you actively choose to limit what is being changed doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's actually a lot safer to queue later in the season compared to early on mind you. Also, we are active in Custom Matches.

Secondly, I don't consider light party queue for anything, because it's the easiest format for match-fixing. We've seen a ridiculous number of posts complaining about unfair boosting in the forums, a lot of which came out of Aether, so why would I ever take that mode seriously? I'm not going to point any fingers at anyone (especially from another DC in which I have no first hand evidence), but I'm also not going to assume that it's in any way an accurate scale for skill when there's no way to know which matches, if any, are actually on the level. For all I know those matches are all on the up and up ... or they all could be totally fixed and a load of bunk.

Except that Light Party is the only format in this game that can accurately assess skill in a PvP mode that is entirely based on team coordination. Carry power can only determine so much. I also mentioned Custom Matches, which being as though you're just a solo queue hero you probably never tried it.

Thirdly, the fact that you're even considering RNG over skill as a deciding factor is enough for me to not take you seriously. Don't get me wrong. I totally agree that luck plays a huge part in this, but you have to work with what you're given. The top 10 who have remained active in Primal have stayed there because they work their asses off to carry the scrubs they get the shaft with instead of crying over unfair matchmaking. You should consider that before you start making baseless boasts about anyone not being "ready" for Aether vs Primal comparisons. You're not intimidating anyone. You're just making us laugh. Honestly, I would love to see Cross DC play just for the sake of a more active queue line, but now I'd be more than curious to see just how "interesting" those results got lol.

RNG shouldn't be a given obstacle, its the big factor as to why despite people playing hundreds of matches, they barely move at all. Succumbing to barely over 50% winrates because RNG is weighed against you, not because you are playing with equally skilled players. Matches played literally determines nothing, and in some cases just means that you only climbed due to playing so much over individual skill. The top 10 remained top 10 because no one else was or is good/lucky enough to take their spot, its not like queues just die when 1 or 2 people stop queuing, other players simply don't have the same carry power. If anything, when the top people stop queuing, it should be easier for the people below them to topple them since they don't have to fight them.

It's really not that hard to climb, tbh you generally at this point belong where you are. My FC mate was the first Gold this season, and instantly started getting stacked with new players on his team, demoted, just to instantly get back to Gold. Hated every moment of being Gold because RNG fucked him every single fight. You claim it was easy to slip into top 10 early when at the time as you got Higher, you got all of the new players against bronze who belong in plat/gold.

No one is trying to intimidate average-ness, I'm talking directly to you, just as you are me. I'll rephrase for you. Februs, you are not good enough to weigh in when it comes to comparing Aether vs Primal high skill levels. Yes, I would love to fight Primal people, particular you at this point in some Light Party games. Would be a landslide against you. lol

[Februs]

RNG shouldn't be a given obstacle, its the big factor as to why despite people playing hundreds of matches, they barely move at all.

When it comes to luck in matchmaking, I'm not going to argue the point. For the most part, I actually agree with your sentiments on how utterly easy it is to get royally fucked by the terrible "balancing" job that the DF does. I've been in and out of Gold something like 3 or 4 times now, and I know that the smart thing to do would have been to just quit when I was ahead. If I'd done that, I would still be sitting pretty for the season ... but I also wouldn't have been playing, and I certainly wouldn't be hypocritical enough to pretend I wasn't exploiting a horribly broken system.

Further, it's not just 1 or 2 people who stop queuing. It can be anywhere from 1-100 people, all of whom are trying to protect their rank. Given how small the PvP community is, that's a huge hit to the queue line. It's fine and dandy to say that it's easier to climb when the top players are out of the way (which is not necessarily true, but whatever), but you can't climb at all if you can't get in. There's already been a post right here in this thread from your server which claims an hour queue and no match in sight. That doesn't make it easier to climb. That makes it impossible to climb. Either way, the bottom line is that people wouldn't stop queuing to protect their rank if it didn't work. It does, which is why it's by far the most common way of maintaining position on any Data Centre.

Now, again, SE is still the biggest offender here, because it's their dumb-ass system. I agree that it definitely doesn't produce the most conducive environment for good and healthy competition. Some odds are just too high to beat, but I do place a lot of value on experience. You don't get experience by sitting on your thumbs, so the total matches played does count for something. The competition might be totally bogus and twisted, but it's still there. The same can't be said for a dead queue.

No one is trying to intimidate average-ness, I'm talking directly to you, just as you are me. I'll rephrase for you. Februs, you are not good enough to weigh in when it comes to comparing Aether vs Primal high skill levels. Yes, I would love to fight Primal people, particular you at this point in some Light Party games. Would be a landslide against you. lol

And, this is where you lost me. The second you resort to a "my penis is bigger than your penis" argument is the second I simply can't take you seriously anymore; although, it is amusing to see someone behave in such a juvenile fashion lol.

I'm assuming your self-assured assumption on a landslide victory comes from a judgement based on our respective ranks? If so, I find that hilarious considering you just made a very valid and serious argument concerning how heavily RNG effects the success rate of solo-queue. The sound of the other shoe is echoing for miles lol. Sadly for you, I don't consider ego masturbation a valid or convincing argument. Sorry, but the simple fact is that you don't know a damn thing about me, how I play, or how good or bad I may or may not be; just as I don't know how good or bad you may or may not be. The number next to your name doesn't mean a damn thing to me. What you can do in the arena is all that matters. As I said before, lacking first hand experience allows me to give you the benefit of the doubt, but that's all you're getting. Maybe, one day (if SE gets their heads out of their butts), we might be able to go head to head and see what happens, but until then it's all just hot air. I have much more pressing and real opponents to deal with on Primal.

[Zojha]

Either way, the bottom line is that people wouldn't stop queuing to protect their rank if it didn't work.

Or, if they weren't incentivized to do so in the first place, for example by basing the rewards on the highest rating you have achieved in the season, rather than the current. (Or whatever else you can think of to remove the incentive to not play - there might be better options)

As it stands, the rating rewards work as an incentive to qualify for them and once you do, as an incentive to play as little as humanly possible to maintain them. Rating decay and minimum participation don't have any huge effect on queue times there, since people will still shoot for the absolute minimum of games and you can't set that so high that it matters or people pretty much can't do anything "but" PvP once they committed to it once - and you'll have cases where people complain that they couldn't achieve the minimum requirement of a week/month/day simply because of not enough games popping when they play, for example because they had night shift and thus had to queue on off hours.

If you're going to shoot yourself in the foot with your reward structure, don't complain about the limping. And yes, I know it wasn't "you" who set it up like that. But everyone who supports the current reward structure has no real ground to complain about people reducing their activity to the minimum (which is 0 right now).

[Nakanishi]

Further, it's not just 1 or 2 people who stop queuing. It can be anywhere from 1-100 people, all of whom are trying to protect their rank. Given how small the PvP community is, that's a huge hit to the queue line. It's fine and dandy to say that it's easier to climb when the top players are out of the way (which is not necessarily true, but whatever), but you can't climb at all if you can't get in. There's already been a post right here in this thread from your server which claims an hour queue and no match in sight. That doesn't make it easier to climb. That makes it impossible to climb. Either way, the bottom line is that people wouldn't stop queuing to protect their rank if it didn't work. It does, which is why it's by far the most common way of maintaining position on any Data Centre.

Everyone who is anyone should be aware when queues die, and it's mostly due to main patches drawing attention away from solo queue. Like I mentioned before, we have a Bard, a range (longest queues), that has nearly 2000 matches. His matches only ended once Patch 3.4 came out. Some games still happen here on Aether, just nowhere near to the extent of pre-3.4. I guess bravo to Primal for finding enjoyment in rng after 3.4.

And, this is where you lost me. The second you resort to a "my penis is bigger than your penis" argument is the second I simply can't take you seriously anymore; although, it is amusing to see someone behave in such a juvenile fashion lol.

I'm assuming your self-assured assumption on a landslide victory comes from a judgement based on our respective ranks? If so, I find that hilarious considering you just made a very valid and serious argument concerning how heavily RNG effects the success rate of solo-queue. The sound of the other shoe is echoing for miles lol. Sadly for you, I don't consider ego masturbation a valid or convincing argument. Sorry, but the simple fact is that you don't know a damn thing about me, how I play, or how good or bad I may or may not be; just as I don't know how good or bad you may or may not be. The number next to your name doesn't mean a damn thing to me. What you can do in the arena is all that matters. As I said before, lacking first hand experience allows me to give you the benefit of the doubt, but that's all you're getting. Maybe, one day (if SE gets their heads out of their butts), we might be able to go head to head and see what happens, but until then it's all just hot air. I have much more pressing and real opponents to deal with on Primal.

Honestly, there was never a moment in this conversation that I took you seriously.

There are things called alts, in which you can play on different datacenters.
(Has nothing to do with your rating, if that's what you think lol)

[FreeKingStefan]

Secondly, I don't consider light party queue for anything, because it's the easiest format for match-fixing. We've seen a ridiculous number of posts complaining about unfair boosting in the forums, a lot of which came out of Aether, so why would I ever take that mode seriously? I'm not going to point any fingers at anyone (especially from another DC in which I have no first hand evidence), but I'm also not going to assume that it's in any way an accurate scale for skill when there's no way to know which matches, if any, are actually on the level. For all I know those matches are all on the up and up ... or they all could be totally fixed and a load of bunk.

This is said by every bad PVPer ever. Those who are active in the PVP community will know exactly who the good teams are and who the win-traders are.

[FreeKingStefan]

Not to say there probably aren't other solutions that satisfy both, but it's been funny to watch.

There have been suggestions made to satisfy both, since both problems stem from poor system implementation and less so player actions.

What is more interesting is how unconstructive these comments are of "lol such flip flop on what they want omg!" Because not only are they different people voicing different opinions, but they are also (often) constructive in that they are providing feedback on a system. It's ok to say something is "too cold" after it's been "too hot" if the end goal is to get it "just right."