China is getting wings

[Kyuuen]

As far as I can tell, alot of these players actually can't point a good reason as to why this shouldn't be in the game.

As far as I can tell, a lot of these players actually can't point a good reason as to why this should be in the game.

I can be condescending, closed minded, and dismissive to!

If there was a gunblade class to be released they'd flip their shits just to play it, regardless of how it doesn't fit in with the lore since its garlean tech and we're eorzeans, but I bet you they'll theory craft something just so it would be possible.

I'm open to wings of any kind

Which is reason for it to actually show up in game! Seeing as we're about to be assaulting a Garlean controlled state, coming across that tech is a distinct possibility. Logic and lore dictation... imagine that!

[Kurogaea]

As far as I can tell, a lot of these players actually can't point a good reason as to why this should be in the game.

I can be condescending, closed minded, and dismissive to!



Which is reason for it to actually show up in game! Seeing as we're about to be assaulting a Garlean controlled state, coming across that tech is a distinct possibility. Logic and lore dictation... imagine that!

And having Hellish Gear (Lore Tomes) with wings on the backs and side are ok even though there's no backstory of eorzeans with wings? Ever thought "oh, nice design." because that's all it is, a design of the gear.

And here's some good reasons: Cosmetic, Options, Role Playing

So while we're on the topic of why lore is still an invalid reason. How about using Primal Summons to defeat our enemies? Last I checked someone dismissed that idea even though we know Lady Iceheart defended us turning into Shiva. So why is this idea any different than Garlean Gunblades?

I believe that this is from a Dead Fantasy video made by Monty Oum and not from a game.

It is, Iromi clarified my point for me though.

[Kyuuen]

So while we're on the topic of why lore is still an invalid reason. How about using Primal Summons to defeat our enemies? Last I checked someone dismissed that idea even though we know Lady Iceheart defended us turning into Shiva. So why is this idea any different than Garlean Gunblades?

Do you even pay attention to the story at all? Because I'm really getting the feeling you don't. The reason we don't summon the actual Primals is due in part to two reasons:

1. Typically the summoning requires a lot of crystals, more than what can be carried by a single person
2. Primals have a real nasty habit of sucking aether up where ever they're summoned.. which I hope you understand, is bad for Hydaeln (the planet)

And I already know what you're thinking. "But Iceheart summoned forth Shiva without crystals when defending us!" You're right. She did, and I don't have an absolute answer to that. Perhaps it's just a plot hole or perhaps it's a plot device we'll figure out later further in the story. I can only make assumptions on how she did it, for instance perhaps to summon Shiva she gave herself to her (enthrallment) meaning she may not have came back to us even had she not been killed.

Or perhaps I'm missing something altogether, in which case anyone feel free to correct me.

And the difference between that and Garlean gunblades... seriously? One is a godly supreme detriment to the planet, the other is crafted by mortals, wielded by mortals, therefore dropped if you killed said mortals, and if dropped by slain mortal then it can be picked up; presumably, by any other mortal.. or immortal for that matter and be wielded by them. You're trying to compare apples to elephants... knock it off.

[Dualblade]

snip

Small correction here: Ysayle DID use crystals to turn into Shiva in her attempt to fight Ravana. The area she did so had a good bit of crystals surrounding it (I believe they actually focus on a cluster of them to show that off as she is transforming). I can check the cutscenes if you want to make sure but it is what I remember. But the amount of crystals she had at her disposal was less than how much Ravana has when he was summoned (before even getting into us at the heart of his land near all of his worshippers) so it didn't work.

And yeah, trying to compare Primal Summoning to a weapon/weapon style is Apples to Watermelons.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Small correction here: Ysayle DID use crystals to turn into Shiva in her attempt to fight Ravana. The area she did so had a good bit of crystals surrounding it (I believe they actually focus on a cluster of them to show that off as she is transforming). I can check the cutscenes if you want to make sure but it is what I remember. But the amount of crystals she had at her disposal was less than how much Ravana has when he was summoned (before even getting into us at the heart of his land near all of his worshippers) so it didn't work.

And yeah, trying to compare Primal Summoning to a weapon/weapon style is Apples to Watermelons.

Going purely off of memory, Ysayle did it by giving herself up to Shiva, rather than by using crystals. There are crystals that sprout from where Ysayle stands, but they're more ice crystals, iirc, rather than ones filled with aether. Incidentally, PCs can already do something like that as a SMN through Dreadwyrm Trance.

[Dualblade]

Going purely off of memory, Ysayle did it by giving herself up to Shiva, rather than by using crystals. There are crystals that sprout from where Ysayle stands, but they're more ice crystals, iirc, rather than ones filled with aether. Incidentally, PCs can already do something like that as a SMN through Dreadwyrm Trance.

Just went and watched it (was on my way to the Inn when I realized "Hey, probably on youtube! Shiva vs Ravana, there you are.) There are crystals in the same room when she transforms and it does focus on Aether being drawn from them when she goes to transform. Crystals of Ice DO form under her though as the transformation starts.

I believe Dreadwyrm Trance is us using the attuned aether within us? I just did that quest yesterday but I confess to not being the best with SMN lore.

[Kurogaea]

snip

Actually I'm comparing something that's debatable to something that's unpredictable. Lore is easily molded to fit whatever comes to the creator's mind. If Ice Heart can change into Shiva for some reason without using Crystals, and it never makes sense, Primal summons come from the determination of the summoner. In otherwords, It will never make sense till the story makes it make sense. And yes, I do pay attention to the story, which is why its pointless to even bother thinking, "Oh this doesn't match up with the lore of the game!" because if it never made sense before, the excuse would be aether. Aether flow, change of hair color, becoming blind using the power of the aether.....what? So honestly you can't say jack about what can't or can be entered in the story. For all we know, forms of Angels and Demons exist in some other world of light that was destroyed and traverse to our world to survive. Full of shet you say? Play the story up till now. I wouldn't doubt it.

Edit: Just watched the "The First Flight of the Excelsior" cutscene (4th cutscene) where IceHeart used an Ice Crystal (Hydaeln's) to transform as well. Woops. (though my next point still counts)

As for the detriments of the planet (and this is a spoiler)

Hydaeln went to the Warriors of Darknesses world to take back the Light that destroyed their world, using the former Warrior's light strength to use Minfilia as an emissary to watch over our world.

In that respect, we can say that by using primals we can prevent the over abundance of light if used accordingly. So yeah, massive elephant compared to your apples, but you get the point. Its not so crazy as for the events we get in the game now. The only reason as to why people don't want the primals as transformations for us is because they hate the dramatic change of what the Player is allowed to do. Be scared all you want. Making up excuses for why a simple cosmetic or a new found ability (thats blatently similar to pomours from Deep Dungeon most likely) is against the lore is flat out ridicoulous.

I can be condescending, closed minded, and dismissive too

Indeed you can. At least I can tell the difference between close-mindedness and optimism.