Why is Yoshi P turning his back on the playerbase that loves this game the most?

[Zojha]

And, as I stated several page before, legacy player already have their rewards.

To be more precise, they're saving 3-5 euro per month.

So if you were subscribed for 2 years, you've saved between 72 and 120 euro. At 15 euro 1.0 subscription fee, that's 4,8-8 months worth of subscription. Considering legacy status required a whole of 3 months subscription in 1.0, I'd say that investment is well amortized by now, even if you assume the 1.0 subscription were worth nothing in terms of enjoyment and thus have no value by themselves.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

To be more precise, they're saving 3-5 euro per month.

So if you were subscribed for 2 years, you've saved between 72 and 120 euro. At 15 euro 1.0 subscription fee, that's 4,8-8 months worth of subscription. Considering legacy status required a whole of 3 months subscription in 1.0, I'd say that investment is well amortized by now.

I dunno, I do my subs on a 6 month renew, and for 3 years it comes out to $288, where i believe the 6 month sub for standard comes out to 12.99/mo for a total of $467. So just on sub alone, even if you add in the legacy sub, it still hasnt come out to even yet.

Unless I missed the point of your post, which is possible since it didn't really make much sense.

[Velhart]

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It seems we have a major reading comprehension problem here. I have never said that I speak on behalf of everyone. Only thing I have said is that he does not represent how the entire community feels and the so called "veteran players" have no form of entitlement to how the game is currently made now any more than other players in this game.

I also love how I have constantly said I have issues with the game and a very negative person but I agree with the core foundation of the game. Yet what he reads is "lol teh gaem iz purfect and all ff11 playurz r stoopid lolol" He does this every time because he only sees things as black and white. Either the game is perfect or it sucks and needs to be completely changed. Why can't I enjoy how the game works yet be critical of how some content works within it's foundation? No? I have to pick a side? Okay.

Also a fun fact in case you forgot the last 20 times I told you. I am a FFXI veteran(2003-2010) and FFXIV 1.0 veteran(alpha to shutdown). As a veteran and legacy player, myself personally, I do not feel entitled to anything more than the average non-legacy player. If anything, I am more appreciative that SE gave me a permanent discount on my subscription and some nice Legacy perks. But wait, I thought all legacy players want to go back to 1.23? I must be a black sheep here.

[Zojha]

Unless I missed the point of your post, which is possible since it didn't really make much sense.

The point was: The legacy sub saves you money every month, which means that the 1.0 subscription can be treated as an investment that is being amortized as time goes on (and becomes profitable once the costs are fully amortized).

I admittedly made two mistakes however:
1. I accidentally swapped euro and dollar in my mind when looking at the sub costs (Legacy status only saves you 3-1 euro per month depending on whether you pay for 30 or 180 days, instead of the 5-3 dollar I calculated with)
2. I did not discount to account for inflation or alternative uses for the capital (Mostly because I doubt people invest that money elsewhere on the capital market)

[Mithrahn]

Any MMORPG or FF14 won't die nowadays, just because someone playing 40h+ feels like he doesn't get enough reward or appreciation for dedicating so much time to this game.

Those "problem people" carry that game. You might not come first, but they do.

The only one who is stucked in an 15 year old thinking is you, if you think that "rare" or "extraordinary" rewards would be good to justify extreme, never-be-nerfed grinds only catering to 40-50h/week playing people or people who sub since 2014.

FF14 is already special in a way, that you can easily catch up, if you took a break and that about every 3-6 months.
No other game does that right now (WoW it's more like 2 years), so why do you want to take their most remarkable trade mark feature in comparision with other MMORPGs away?

Sorry, gotta stop you right there. You clearly don't know what you're talking about or haven't done your research.
I played WoW for about one week back in 2007 during the burning crusades expansion and left the game cause of boredom. Nine years later, this year, I went and try it again cause my better half asked me to join.
I caught up to endgame (level 100 from level 1, though cap is 110 [apparently, level 100 was the cap for the expansion before legion]) within the week, and you say it takes 2 years?
What do you mean no other MMO does this eh?

From what I see, FFXIV is definitely going that road too. I'm not liking it.
Right now, FFXIV looks like a cheap imitation of WoW. That's the cold hard truth.

Look, I'm not a WoW fan, I used to pretty much say a lot of bad things about WoW, but honestly, after being invited to try it with a neutral point of view, at first I almost fell asleep after 2 hours of playing, but honestly, I can say FFXIV is "Final Fantasy XIV: A WoW Clone Reborn" AND WoW does have really decent systems in place like how they handled Artifact Weapons (in FF terms, Relic) in their "Legion" expansion. They also have a system similar to our Squadron System called "Garrison". Their PVP is done better, and I'm comparing the instanced PvP aka queue-in-duty-finder pvp not their "World PvP", ala our Wolves Den/The Feast/Frontlines. They have it too, in an instance, queued through their 'group finder'. Their World Questing and their FATE-like system doesn't feel as bad as our FATE. Even their instances in their version of 'duty finder' aren't as boring as ours, and for once I don't mind queueing with pubs, while here I avoid duty finder like the plague.

(going a little out of topic but) Only major difference right now are how crafting and gathering are being handled in FFXIV. But from 3.4 patch, it honestly feels like the devs don't really like craft/gatherers either, cause they gated Idyllshire which would be essential for endgame crafting/gathering behind 3.0 story combat quests. And more recently, Mhachi Demimatter behind Wondrous Tails. An item that grants you Craft/Gather Grade V materia but requires you to do duties in duty finder made for combat classes.
In this game, you can do combat without ever crafting/gathering. But you can't do craft/gather without ever doing combat. If I'd known better, they're probably gonna dumb down their 'unique crafting system' in the future and turn the game into a 'true' "WoW Clone Reborn". /eughnowthissoundslikehatespeech

[NefarioCall]

If development stopped today, there would be no endgame. ... because the constant vertical progression means that the endgame is as non-existent as it was at launch and always will be. They have to make the decision to go horizontal eventually. All the prior content is quality and will always be an important foundation upon which to expand... but it's time to stop the vertical line and expand outward.

[Velhart]

If development stopped today, there would be no endgame. ... because the constant vertical progression means that the endgame is as non-existent as it was at launch and always will be. They have to make the decision to go horizontal eventually. All the prior content is quality and will always be an important foundation upon which to expand... but it's time to stop the vertical line and expand outward.

WoW has been doing vertical progression for over 10 years. What makes you confident in saying that FFXIV cannot?

[Reynhart]

Reynhart: I'm not. I'm speaking for the people I am intouch with from reddit facebook FFXIV groups and other sources who feel that they have just given up on sharing their opinions because its not going to happen.

A totally irrelevant sample compared to the whole population.

About rewards for so called legacy players doesnt do alot because it has nothing to do with the actual gameplay just some useless items that have been pretty much handed out to other players in different forms example the gobbue mount without the carpet LOL.

You contributed with money, you're rewarded with discounts.

The way the game is going now it will just kill itself you know this I know this aswell Reynhart maybe not for Velhart cause its flawless but for the rest of us we see the problems.

You can't claim that. If the game fails by following this route, we'll be right. If it succeeds, then we were wrong.
Besides, saying that the game is "flawless" is as much an overstatement than saying it's "broken". As we are now, though, the game is indeed "succesful"

WoW has been doing vertical progression for over 10 years. What makes you confident in saying that FFXIV cannot?

I think "vertical progression" is not the only reason why WoW has been succesful for such a long time. Do they have the same 6-month gear lifespan ? That same gap between facerolling dungeons and brutal savage raids ? The same lack of varied stats and bonuses on gear ?

[Mithrahn]

Just some OOT share:
https://www.engadget.com/2014/02/05/...l-progression/
(Maybe I should create another thread somewhere out there)

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

If development stopped today, there would be no endgame. ... because the constant vertical progression means that the endgame is as non-existent as it was at launch and always will be. They have to make the decision to go horizontal eventually. All the prior content is quality and will always be an important foundation upon which to expand... but it's time to stop the vertical line and expand outward.

How would horizontal progression create endgame?

If development stopped now, endgame would be what they added in 3.4

You can make the same argument for horizontal progression as well. If they stopped development, you would already have equivalent gear to the rest of whats out there.