Yoshida, The Creator: Savage is the worst tuning ever in an MMO

[Kyne_Lyons]

I haven't read the whole topic but I think people are missing OP's issue.

The problem is not that the content is too easy, but that it's tuned wrong. If you can skip phases with "obsolete" gear, there is a problem.

Let's take Ravana EX, for example. Nowadays, it's common to just burn the boss during add phase to push Chandrahas earlier. But when it was released, you add to focus on the adds to ensure no sword pop, even though it wasn't "difficult". Even if Creator's difficulty is tuned down to make more people into raids, you shouldn't be able to screw some boss rotation that early.

Thank you for staying on topic and actually understanding the reason that I posted. I knew when I posted this that a lot of people were going to try to turn it into a "us versus them" thread and I am praying that the developers can see through the noise and understand the issue I am trying to bring attention to.

[Lulu89]

Thank you for staying on topic and actually understanding the reason that I posted. I knew when I posted this that a lot of people were going to try to turn it into a "us versus them" thread and I am praying that the developers can see through the noise and understand the issue I am trying to bring attention to.

I haven't read the whole topic but I think people are missing OP's issue.

The problem is not that the content is too easy, but that it's tuned wrong. If you can skip phases with "obsolete" gear, there is a problem.

Let's take Ravana EX, for example. Nowadays, it's common to just burn the boss during add phase to push Chandrahas earlier. But when it was released, you had to focus on the adds to ensure no sword pop, even though it wasn't "difficult".

Even if Creator's difficulty is tuned down to make more people into raids (which is good), you shouldn't be able to screw some boss rotation that early.
And apparently, the same is also true for Sophia EX.

And I ran in to MANY party's that can't push.. So it not 100%. And not every raid team will be hardcore or have 2years of raid exp under there belt like some a of us.

Again I say who cares! Just have fun and injoy the game.

[Velhart]

And I ran in to MANY party's that can't push.. So it not 100%. And not every raid team will be hardcore or have 2years of raid exp under there belt like some a of us.

Again I say who cares! Just have fun and injoy the game.

So let things be potentially broken, ill structured, and fall under amateurish like design as long as it is fun? Okay.

[aleph_null]

I just noticed that both the new trial and savage has this problem about pushing phases. My group sometimes skip certain mechanics during learning a10s and sophia ex and it makes it annoying (tank swap preparation, cd management) since we don't skip it 100% of the time. I don't mind the easier difficulty, but the phase skipping is admittedly annoying.

[Brian_]

I think fights with varied phasing based on DPS are good. They just need to be designed so that skipped phases are more seamless like in A5S, A7S or Sophia EX and don't create awkward situations like when you push A8S P1 too quickly.

What this accomplishes is it adds variation to a fight, tests your understanding of mechanics and ability to adapt, and gives groups something else to do even after clearing. Clearing A5S in early prog and doing speed runs of it later on were different experiences. In a game with such little content, that's a good thing. It gives groups something else to do.

Overall, I don't think the tuning of this tier is that bad. Yea, the top teams cleared in a few days. So what?

The gap between a top raider in this game and your average mid-core raider is already gigantic. The gap between a top raider and a casual raider is indescribably large. And, on top of the gap in skill, top raiders have considerable resources that your average raider doesn't have -- stockpiled gil from content selling, FC / organizer support for recruitment and raid information, dedicated crafters feeding them crafted gear and stockpiles of the best food and potions, etc.

So even if the best statics are clearing the hardest content week 1, it's still going to take your average static months of progression.

And, as for the gear progression, that's also fine as long as they don't flush it down the toilet immediately in 4.0 and have the gear last as long as it did in 3.0 or even a bit longer (and maybe have it desynth into rare mats later on). The main complaint from raiders about gear progression (which has been misrepresented in this topic) is that the gear is pointless after you clear the content. There is no point in farming for BiS because for the next tier of early progression, you are going to want the new tier of crafted gear. So, as long as the Creator's gear lasts into the next expansion, I think it's fine.

On one final point, it's a good thing that top statics didn't need a lot of i270 gear to clear the content. That's how your content is supposed to be tuned. When you make the gear matter, the world-race devolves into RNG drop luck, alt-runs, and weekly resets rather than a real test of skill and problem solving. Gordias was gear gated and the consensus among top raiders was that it was stupid. And, when even the best statics need i270 gear to clear, that means mid-core and casual players are left without a gear crutch to help them clear content. If HC raiders can clear content at ~i250, that means MC and casual raiders have ~20 ilevels of gear to help them. If HC raiders can't clear content until ~i260, that means MC and casual raiders only have ~10 ilevels of gear to help close the skill gap. If HC raiders can't clear content until ~i270, that means MC and casual raiders will never clear it.

So the Creator is hardly a disaster.

[Reynhart]

And I ran in to MANY party's that can't push.. So it not 100%.

You shouldn't "Run into parties that can't push so it's not 100%", you should "run into parties that automatically do the whole savage/EX boss rotation at release". Pushing phases on savage should be a 0% probability at first, and slowly increasing whit the scripture/savage gear.

When the three part of Crystal Tower were released, you couldn't push any phase. Not properly killing adds for bone dragon was a wipe. Not charging the wall for Scylla's petrification was a huge deal, letting Glasya Labolas charge its attack too high was also a wipe.

With i90, you couldn't push phases on content that dropped i80...with i100/110, you couldn't push phases on content that dropped i100...now, with i240/250, you can push phases on content that drop i270.

Keep in ming CT is considered faceroll content.

[Brian_]

You shouldn't "Run into parties that can't push so it's not 100%", you should "run into parties that automatically do the whole savage/EX boss rotation at release". Pushing phases on savage should be a 0% probability at first, and slowly increasing whit the scripture/savage gear.

When the three part of Crystal Tower were released, you couldn't push any phase. Not properly killing adds for bone dragon was a wipe. Not charging the wall for Scylla's petrification was a huge deal, letting Glasya Labolas charge its attack too high was also a wipe.

With i90, you couldn't push phases on content that dropped i80...with i100/110, you couldn't push phases on content that dropped i100...now, with i240/250, you can push phases on content that drop i270.

Keep in ming CT is considered faceroll content.

You could push plenty of that content without over gearing.

[Reynhart]

You could push plenty of that content without over gearing.

So, I guess I must have run into only bad alliances for not seeing any Syrcus push before ilvl120/130 was created.

Yet still, at best, the content you pushed dropped the same ilvl as you already had. This is totally different, especially for a Savage content.

[SublimeIbanez]

Using World of Warcraft as an example, their developers said that 95% of the cost of content development is used creating Normal Mode, and Mythic only costs that 5% since all they're doing is paying people to tune the fights to be harder. 5% of the cost for 5% of the playerbase sounds about right.

Do you by any chance have a source for this? I'm legit curious on some of the expense requirements necessary for content like this.

[Pasquale]

We are really discussing about a content where u are able to SKIPP PHASES 1st day in ilv 240!!! How canu say this is good for you!