Yoshida, The Creator: Savage is the worst tuning ever in an MMO

[OMGAFLYINGPENGUIN]

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I would believe they have a team in SE to test the content, employed staffs, not random players from the community. There is a reason why I believe they have done a good job( better than more korean MMOs) in balancing classes, I don't think their team is as incompetent as everyone thinks, they played used to QQ about how easy rotations were, they made it complex in HW, they have shown that they can introduce things of high difficulty and complexity. As for testing content, Alright lets say they got angered or EM to test the content to guage how long it'd take the most hardcore teams to clear. And one of the teams got World 1st and the community finds out, what would happen?

Btw I'm not white knighting, I'm telling you I've experienced first hand. Doing this comes with a big risk for them.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I'd like to weigh in and say that the creator is NOT too easy. The mechanics are engaging, and most importantly, fun. The issue comes from the insane gear check that renders most gear this patch (and next patch) irrelevant. The first two instances are fine as they are, but the last two should definately have posed more of a gear check problem than it did.

People should be able to reasonably clear it, however, people should not be able to reasonably clear without at least a few pieces of scripture gear, and I feel that the ilvl plan for this patch is the part that is broken, not the difficulty of the raid.

Then won't it take much longer to complete Alexander or just as long to even be able to get a shot at doing a floor? I don't think I'd be happy having to grind expert roulette for tomestones and get gear every week or two just to be able to enter/clear one floor.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Not everyone was happy with Gordias, and not everyone was happy with Midas, and now not everyone is happy with Creator. They are all just tuned in different directions. The middle ground you asked for probably doesn't exist, or if it does would cost more time/money to find.

Exactly.

People keep ranting about this mythical "mid-core" content, without realising that there's no such thing. What's "mid-core" for one group of players may well be hardcore for another group of players.

As the saying goes: "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

It simply boils down to entitlement mentality: People always think their own needs matter the most, everyone else be damned. Is it any surprise, then, that the NA community is so toxic?

[silentwindfr]

Or they could choose to tune it in a manner where progression is organic and you can't brute force everything Day 1. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, the world is not black and white.

a rule, absolute rule actually, in mmorpg world..... HARDCORE WILL ALWAYS FORCE EVERYTHING!!! you talk of wow, remember how some of the last raid was simply crushed in less of 3 day.... why this? because the top player have very good skill, a good team and generally good gear for support this. do it's unfair? no this did work for this, for be the best. the course to be the first to clean a raid is always a thing.... if the best of the best, with the best gears is not able to complete a content for weeks.... how you want the normal player, that have barely the BiS and the best skill or the best team to pass it?

not everyone have your static, gear or experience, do it means that the one below you must'nt enjoy this? because for the 2.0 most of the community did even see T13 boss.... and we are clearly outgearing the stuff.... why this? because most of the fight is filled with unforgiving mechanic that even echoes and gears can't make you ignore.... worst, some content in unsync will become trickier since the boss will have mechanic skip that can create.... strange and dangerous situation.... but i digress.

the point is right now, the community is split in 2 the casual on one side, and the hardcore on the other side. where it's sad, that some hardcore think they deserve a better treatment than a casual....forgeting that before be a hardcore gamer they was casual, noob, bad player. no one is perfect from the get go....Sadly, if you only make content for the best of the best.... new generation of hardcore will probably never appear.... leading to our situation, where most player simply ignore savage content, if not extrem.... why? because a lot of harcore and raider create a bad reputation and act quite toxicly....

like the no first time, kill part 1 error = 1 kick..... and such... yeah, you want to farm in peace, but you refuse new player and after you complain that the dev look at the stats and notice that the content they did work hard on.... is barely touched by 5% of the player base. meaning this content is bad..... them goal is to make as much player as possible enjoy the game and wanting to keep coming into it.

but if a content is only source of frustration for normal player and casual player.... that are kinda the most big part of the community.... you can be sure that it's not healthy for the game.

before continue i want to point a game that did come out with hardcore in mind, the goal was to make a game for the hardcore.... called wildstar..... how it did go? turn in f2p and they had to tune down the whole game.... because hardcore is not the norm of the mmorpg player.

you want harder content, good, help to make the player level increase instead to complain here or isolate yourself without people of the same skill.... more raider and hardcore will be present and doing hard content, more they thrive to make harder content.

but if hardcore and raider continue to isolate themself.... they have no reason to give more and more and more harder content for a so little part of the community. and you know what.... it's logical. and hardcore are responsible for this situation. they did crush the true midcore content, asking more and more and more.... to the point that the dev don't have the time to create a bridge for allows casual to become midcore for become hardcore later.


no one is good from the start, everyone did start like noob, casual or bad player.... want the sitation to change. change your mentality and accept to see that the raider and hardcore community is responsible for this. in older game hardcore was training midcore for get more raider for do more content and such.... but here.... only a few still do it. here people only want to farm with the people of same skill. ignoring that if you take a bit of time to train a casual, maybe he can be an exellent player that will later help you to do more content.

just 2 cents. think about it.

ps: just like this, i'm an old hardcore player from older game, i did stop because i don't have the group nor the will to partake into it, when i see people acting soo rudely with new player. i feel bad.... it make me sick to think that people have become soo selfish and simply don't want to be part of a community in the whole. only with a small group.

[Kyne_Lyons]

If you think savage is too easy you just need to accept that you are in a very small, very vocal minority and SE simply cannot cater to your needs because they do not have the resources to do so. Sure, everyone would like more content of the difficulty level they prefer, but you have to temper that desire with the reality the SE has to sell this product relative to the people who consume said product. They have the stats of the clear rates. They aren't going to spend their time making content only 2.5% of the playerbase will play, it's not cost-effective.

The end. /thread

Not the end, no. The content is already being developed for Normal Mode and they are spending pennies developing Savage Mode. This is how it works for every MMORPG on the market including World of Warcraft, zero exceptions.

[Lambdafish]

Then won't it take much longer to complete Alexander or just as long to even be able to get a shot at doing a floor? I don't think I'd be happy having to grind expert roulette for tomestones and get gear every week or two just to be able to enter/clear one floor.

The problem is that this content is supposed to last 6 months (at least) AND cater to a wider audience this time around, and the problem is that only one of those criteria seems to have been pursued(the latter). To achieve the former you either need to make a harder raid, or increase the ilvl requirement for clearing, and only the second option also adheres to the goal of appealing to a wider audience.

On another note: Is grinding expert not also content that the devs want you to do? Does that not prove my point of rendering gear obsolete?

[Lulu89]

Oo please get over your selfs.. FFXIV not for hardcore raiders.. The more ppl raid the better I say. It pisses me off to only see 20-30 ppl with endgame raid gear. 3.0 was over kill, we need more 2.0 raids where more ppl raid v less. You want hardcore to back to WoW I say.

On that note.. 1st you QQ its to easy.. Then QQ it to hard.. Now your back to QQ it too easy... Sry but I'll take easy and more ppl to play with, over to hard and less ppl to play with. to many Staict failed with A1S- A8S and so much more rage quitting and bad blood then there was in 2.0 raids.

[Astral145]

This is SE's way to get more players into the raid scene.... This past year it was pulling teeth to get players to run savage raids...anyway try to get more players into raiding.....

[Evangela]

just scrap the whole elite raids. It's classist. They should treat all the players equally.

Spending game budget to develop content for 5% minorities isn't the right thing to do.

[Reynhart]

I haven't read the whole topic but I think people are missing OP's issue.

The problem is not that the content is too easy, but that it's tuned wrong. If you can skip phases with "obsolete" gear, there is a problem.

Let's take Ravana EX, for example. Nowadays, it's common to just burn the boss during add phase to push Chandrahas earlier. But when it was released, you had to focus on the adds to ensure no sword pop, even though it wasn't "difficult".

Even if Creator's difficulty is tuned down to make more people into raids (which is good), you shouldn't be able to screw some boss rotation that early.
And apparently, the same is also true for Sophia EX.