The Griffin

[Bloody]

Cutscenes outside of Little Ala Mhigo, Papalymo, out of range of everyone else, mutters to himself about "Hells take me for giving you that mask." I doubt it is in reference to Yda's mask, but I could be wrong.

Edit: It is a part of the final quest, An Ending to Mark a New Beginning, but of course is not one of the cutscenes in the Unending Journey......

Edit 2: got to 5:53 @ Ardonis's recording of the quest.

Thankfully Ardonis recorded the quest from start to finish, so we get to see all the stuff NOT remembered in the Unending Journey.

[Cilia]

That cutscene isn't rewatchable, but as I remember it Papalymo was referring to Yda's mask. Her mask was damaged during their escape from Ul'dah, finally giving us a glimpse of her whole face, only for her to show up again with a fully intact one. Papalymo saying that he had given her a new one explains why that's no longer the case.

EDIT
Maaaaaaaaybe. The problem with that is, if Papalymo knew who the Griffin was there's no reason he wouldn't tell us, especially considering he is disapproving of Yda's unexpressed desire to help the Resistance more overtly.

[Nalien]

Cutscenes outside of Little Ala Mhigo, Papalymo, out of range of everyone else, mutters to himself about "Hells take me for giving you that mask." I doubt it is in reference to Yda's mask, but I could be wrong.

I took that to mean that, since Yda always wore that mask, that's how people recognized her... If he hadn't given her a new mask, Gundobald wouldn't have recognized her and promptly reminded her of her past, which seems to have her siding up with the Resistance more and more... She's actually less recognizable without the mask...

She'd have to have worn the mask before joining up the the Circle of Knowing for that to work, of course, but given Gundobald recognized her with the mask, it's fair to assume she wore one during her time with him... As such he only recognized her because Papalymo got her a new one... She's already warming up to the Resistance, and being reminded of her past involvements with them (and her fathers, no less) likely doesn't help matters... Papalymo clearly doesn't want her getting too attached to the Resistance, so it makes the most sense to me that he was referencing her mask, not the Griffins...

It's possible that he got the Griffin his mask, perhaps unknowingly as a favor to the Resistance upon first arriving, but... The context of that scene revolves around Yda and her past, not really the Griffin...

[Anonymoose]

I'm still mulling over a lot of the text, but while we're all throwing out our interpretations of the mask line...

I took it to mean that Papalymo regrets giving her something to hide behind; she uses it as a crutch now. Gundobald's lines make it (more or less, arguably) clear that her father was a major figure in the revolution against Theodoric. When he later fell fighting the Garleans, the people who respected him and were inspired by him looked to her for their hope. Even though Yda shares her father's passions, she doesn't like that pressure; she doesn't want to lead, she doesn't want to be a symbol, she just wants to follow her heart and kick some ass. I take that to be why she ran away with the Circle of Knowing; back in 1562, the Circle was pretty sure that war with the Garleans was going to spark the Calamity. She could play an important role in saving Eorzea from Ala Mhigo's fate and driving back the Empire from her homeland, all without anybody knowing or caring who she was. Now she doesn't want to live without that anonymity; she's dependent on being behind the mask. Despite sharing literally every ambition with Gundobald, despite all of the history they share, as soon as he recognizes her, she flees. If you read into her criticism of the Griffin for hiding behind a mask, it's at least a little bit of a Freudian projection kind of thing.

Just my two gil.

[Alberel]

I'd like to point out that there is a thread on Reddit that has conclusively unmasked the The Griffin via... certain methods. I won't reveal anything here as we're not meant to really know yet but the identity is out there if you want to look.

[Cilia]

Aww c'mon, that's like the Scooby Doo gang using X-ray specs to see though the monster costume!

I'm not looking. Especially since I don't frequent social media.

EDIT
I'm even more convinced it's Ilberd now that I've mulled over the context and some words in the Journal. It seems that the False Griffin is a portent that our actions, benevolent as they may be, can have long-lasting and ill consequences. In the short term, it's meant as a setup for how the Warriors of Darkness, despite having done everything right, ultimately doomed their world to a cessation of existence until we were able to worm assistance out of Hydaelyn.

In the long run, however... well, saving Raubahn was more important than capturing Ilberd at the time. Yet, in letting him go, are we not indirectly responsible for any evils he may perpetrate in the future? I'm not going to say prioritizing Raubahn's health and safety over stopping Ilberd was the wrong decision, and yet...

[Anonymoose]

Honestly, I find the discussion more compelling than any theory or narrative. Our list of suspects is unchanged,and it's so obviously Ilberd that it's almost evidence against itself. So that's good reason to look at new characters and figures like Gallien, who we'd seen but easily forgotten. But if, as the game seems to want, we accept that it's Ilberd ... what don't we know? Nothing is that easy. There's more to this.

The potential Baelsar hints are intoxicating, but the guy is dead. Or at least only mostly dead. Best case scenario, he's not yet deader than dead.

... So what's one more post? </equip "Darksteelfoil Mortarboard">
Between the four main client languages, I noticed a recurring theme in references to the Griffin. See if you can spot it.

...his fiery speeches...
...lit a fire in their hearts...
...lectures are too heated...
...must really care about secrecy; it's so hot behind a mask...
...a glowing heart which kindles those of others...
...is animated by an intense flame...
...fire is as reassuring as it is dangerous...
...he has a hot heart which moves the people...
...so easy to light a fire within the naive...

But, yes. I concede that it's probably Ilberd (or someone new / that we forgot). Or all of the above, I guess, right? Like the Griffin is revealed to be Ilberd, but that he's not the true head of the operation? Gaius always did like adopting needy, malleable strays. But perhaps the joke has run its course, lol.

[P.S.] Did you go back and listen close to what the Griffin was saying in the background when you meet Yda / Papalymo?

If you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, then I bid you join us! And those of you who cannot fight, fear not. For it is not strength of arms that will win this battle, but strength of heart!

... ... ... S- ... Sabik?

Fine, fine. </unequip "Darksteelfoil Mortarboard">

[Nalien]

It's Ilberd, but... The real Griffin probably still isn't the real Griffin... Right now we have two; Gallien as the mouthpiece, and someone as the leader, but do we really know he is the leader? I would expect more in the future... When dealing with these kind of characters, I'm always doubtful when we catch the "real deal"... If the leader is playing their cards right, we'll catch someone who we think is the real one, so that he can slip away unnoticed... That we've already been shown the "real" Griffin has me incredibly doubtful...

This would also nicely do away with what I consider to be an inconsistency if we want Baelsar under the mask... I just can't see him making a deal with another Ascian after last time, but if Ilberd is just the Griffin on the frontlines (who we currently believe to be the real Griffin), taking orders from some yet-unseen real Griffin, then that Griffin could be Baelsar, or Theodred, or Yda's father, or Godbert, or Raubahns reanimated arm... Ilberd can make a deal with Elidiboo because behind that mask he is still an individual, unless he is the true leader, he'd be Ilberd first, and the Griffin second...

That said, I actually think it would be more interesting if there is no real Griffin... There either never was a true leader, or we just never catch him... It would be nice if they make it a mystery that can be answered, but never is... Have the answer somewhere in 4.#, but never blatantly spell it out...

[Frederick22]

I just hope nobody gets dissapointed when we find out that Gaius was not the Griffin and he was infact DEAD.. as last time we saw him >_>

[Rocl]

I just hope nobody gets dissapointed when we find out that Gaius was not the Griffin and he was infact DEAD.. as last time we saw him >_>

At the End of an Era I was content to write both Nael van Darnus and Louisoix Leivelleur off as casualties and was adamantly against them returning in A Realm Reborn in any sort of living fashion. (Even flashbacks, I argued, would cheapen it.)

I was so convinced of their death (especially Darnus, man, dude dispersed into the aether) that when I learned they weren't dead "dead" but dead-dead-mostly-dead I flipped my lid in excitement. So, you know, they've shown themselves to be willing play fast and loose with some degrees of mortality and I'm willing to entertain all possibilities for now. I won't cry myself to sleep when Gaius is revealed to be a rotting corpse in Northern Thanalan, but I would exactly kick and scream if he was shown alive.

(I actually had the same argument for Ysale until 3.3, and realistically I think anyone with a proper grave shouldn't return either but I digress...)